[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
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03-10-2015, 05:26 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(03-10-2015 05:11 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 05:04 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  True, but how many times can a grown man (or woman) reiterate that point before it begins to look like a spat between petulant children? This already split thread about gun control has just educated me that Anjele's supposedly a bitch, and TheBeardedDude is a supposedly, justifiably, whiny asshole! Dodgy

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Watch! By the time my 2-finger typing ass posts this, the convo will be back on nothing but guns! Facepalm

Tongue

If being considered a "whiny asshole" is the only way to point out to someone that they said/implied/asked a shitty question that they had no justifiable reason for, then I guess I am a whiny asshole. Drinking Beverage

Pointing that out doesn't bring a lot of riveting information to the gun debate. Undecided
Excellent material for The Viper's Pit, though!

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03-10-2015, 05:26 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
What is really disturbing these days is that our political process is so incredibly broken that we can't even begin to address such important issues. For instance, how did Congress respond to the most recent mass shooting? By rejecting an amendment that would allow the CDC to study the causes of these mass shootings. We actually have a congress that is against collecting the data to learn more about these events in order to help stop these events. And the "Why" isn't really a question when the NRA is spending so much money to lobby congress to keep bills and amendments off of the table. It is disheartening. No



http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-07-02/qu...n-violence

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03-10-2015, 05:28 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(03-10-2015 05:25 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 04:24 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Not to mention the fact that in order to be useful in self defense, guns in classrooms would need to be accessible. Meaning that accessible guns would be there in the same location as the kids. That is a recipe for disaster.

Guns should not be in every classroom; they should be only accessible to staff who are trained in their use.

In American high schools, there are usually vice principals (and teachers) who are also sports coaches. Some of them are pretty physically imposing and are not likely to have their guns taken.

The coaches at my high school might have been physically imposing, but they weren't the best of character in every case.

If we want security in our schools, they need to be security and not a teacher playing rent-a-cop. A cop isn't qualified to teach. And a teacher isn't qualified to be a cop.

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03-10-2015, 05:28 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(03-10-2015 05:26 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 05:11 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  If being considered a "whiny asshole" is the only way to point out to someone that they said/implied/asked a shitty question that they had no justifiable reason for, then I guess I am a whiny asshole. Drinking Beverage

Pointing that out doesn't bring a lot of riveting information to the gun debate. Undecided
Excellent material for The Viper's Pit, though!

Fair enough, but my point is to illuminate the asinine assumption in the thread in which it was made.

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03-10-2015, 05:32 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(03-10-2015 05:11 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 05:04 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  True, but how many times can a grown man (or woman) reiterate that point before it begins to look like a spat between petulant children? This already split thread about gun control has just educated me that Anjele's supposedly a bitch, and TheBeardedDude is a supposedly, justifiably, whiny asshole! Dodgy

[Image: 36672a4.jpg]

Watch! By the time my 2-finger typing ass posts this, the convo will be back on nothing but guns! Facepalm

Tongue

If being considered a "whiny asshole" is the only way to point out to someone that they said/implied/asked a shitty question that they had no justifiable reason for, then I guess I am a whiny asshole. Drinking Beverage

The manner in which you initially presented your opposition to short-term measures did sound like opposing their implementation at all. Consider

That, of course, leaves a gap in time between now and long-term solutions.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-10-2015, 05:32 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
A good example (within the US) for why the "more guns" argument is nonsensical.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-sugar...mg00000063

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03-10-2015, 05:33 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(03-10-2015 05:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 05:11 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  If being considered a "whiny asshole" is the only way to point out to someone that they said/implied/asked a shitty question that they had no justifiable reason for, then I guess I am a whiny asshole. Drinking Beverage

The manner in which you initially presented your opposition to short-term measures did sound like opposing their implementation at all. Consider

That, of course, leaves a gap in time between now and long-term solutions.

No, it didn't. Being critical of something, is not the same as being diametrically opposed to it.

But let's say I grant you the assumption that it sounded as though I was opposed the implementation of these security measures. In any way shape or form, would that warrant the assumption I would be okay with kids being shot?

"I assume you are okay with kids getting shot till that control happens cause metal detectors won't help at all?"

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03-10-2015, 05:36 PM (This post was last modified: 03-10-2015 05:49 PM by Chas.)
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(03-10-2015 05:20 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 05:17 PM)Chas Wrote:  We have some laws such as the federal law stipulating that hand guns may only be purchased in one's state of residence. All of the federal firearms laws are uniform across the country.


All guns start out "legal". People have to break the law to make a gun "illegal".

But the state laws are not homogeneous. So one state being closer to having adequate laws, is undermined by any and every other state that doesn't.

The state laws don't matter for that - it is a federal law and is true for every person in every state.

Quote:And yes, it is precisely my point that even the illegal guns are legal somewhere along the line. Better restrictions on who gets the guns and how, means fewer illegal guns by necessity.

It is already illegal to transfer a firearm illegally. What law can be added to make it more illegal?

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03-10-2015, 05:40 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(03-10-2015 05:36 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 05:20 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  But the state laws are not homogeneous. So one state being closer to having adequate laws, is undermined by any and every other state that doesn't.

The state laws don't matter for that - it is a federal law and is true for every person in every state.

Quote:And yes, it is precisely my point that even the illegal guns are legal somewhere along the line. Better restrictions on who gets the guns and how, means fewer illegal guns by necessity.

It is already illegal to transfer a firearm illegally. What law can be added to make more illegal?

"The state laws don't matter for that - it is a federal law and is true for every person in every state."

It is clear that when there are states with lax laws on guns, it undermines the states with more stringent gun laws and regulations and licensing requirements. For instance, as Chicago has an insane amount of gun violence and stringent gun laws, one might assume this means those laws don't work. A closer inspection reveals that because it is so easy for these laws to be skirted because the guns can simply be brought into Chicago, more lax laws in the areas surrounding it, are what make Chicago's laws ineffective.

If we want better control and regulation of guns and gun owners, it can't be a piece-meal solution where states differ appreciably in their stringency.

It is already illegal to transfer a firearm illegally. What law can be added to make more illegal?"

Not make "more illegal" but prevent legal guns from making it illegally into other people's hands.

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03-10-2015, 05:40 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
So more guns in schools is the answer! WTF are you serious:

Data from a US mortality follow-back survey were analyzed to determine whether having a firearm in the home increases the risk of a violent death in the home and whether risk varies by storage practice, type of gun, or number of guns in the home. Those persons with guns in the home were at greater risk than those without guns in the home of dying from a homicide in the home (adjusted odds ratio = 1.9, 95% confidence interval: 1.1, 3.4). They were also at greater risk of dying from a firearm homicide, but risk varied by age and whether the person was living with others at the time of death. The risk of dying from a suicide in the home was greater for males in homes with guns than for males without guns in the home (adjusted odds ratio = 10.4, 95% confidence interval: 5.8, 18.9). Persons with guns in the home were also more likely to have died from suicide committed with a firearm than from one committed by using a different method (adjusted odds ratio = 31.1, 95% confidence interval: 19.5, 49.6). Results show that regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and firearm suicide

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