[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
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03-10-2015, 07:10 PM
[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root ...
I don't want trained monkeys with guns to be the ones protecting the kids. That's precisely my point that "anyone" can be trained well enough to know how to kill with a gun. That's precisely the problem.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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03-10-2015, 07:17 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(03-10-2015 07:10 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I don't want trained monkeys with guns to be the ones protecting the kids. That's precisely my point that "anyone" can be trained well enough to know how to kill with a gun. That's precisely the problem.

It's not feasible to put cops in schools. Why not use the resources you have available? If they aren't fit to learn how to properly handle a firearm, then perhaps they aren't fit to teach.
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03-10-2015, 07:20 PM
[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root ...
(03-10-2015 07:17 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 07:10 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I don't want trained monkeys with guns to be the ones protecting the kids. That's precisely my point that "anyone" can be trained well enough to know how to kill with a gun. That's precisely the problem.

It's not feasible to put cops in schools. Why not use the resources you have available? If they aren't fit to learn how to properly handle a firearm, then perhaps they aren't fit teach.

Why would it not be feasible to have properly trained cops in schools?

And how in the world does it make any sense to base someone's teaching qualifications on their proficiency with a gun? That's an asinine assumption. It would the equivalent of saying that maybe someone shouldn't drive a car if they don't know how to handle a gun. It assumes that it actually does require an exceptional intelligence to handle a gun (which even you have said is not necessary).

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03-10-2015, 07:20 PM (This post was last modified: 03-10-2015 07:25 PM by Ted Tucker.)
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
How about considering some examples? Banjo can possibly give some insight?

It is worth considering, as one data point in the pool of evidence about what sorts of gun control policies do and do not work, the experience of Australia. Between October 1996 and September 1997, Australia responded to its own gun violence problem with a solution that was both straightforward and severe: It collected roughly 650,000 privately held guns. It was one of the largest mandatory gun buyback programs in recent history. And it worked.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein
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03-10-2015, 07:28 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(03-10-2015 07:17 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 07:10 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I don't want trained monkeys with guns to be the ones protecting the kids. That's precisely my point that "anyone" can be trained well enough to know how to kill with a gun. That's precisely the problem.

It's not feasible to put cops in schools. Why not use the resources you have available? If they aren't fit to learn how to properly handle a firearm, then perhaps they aren't fit to teach.

What? In many schools there are at least one cop around a lot of the time If not more. In the case of colleges, most campus's have campus police, even community colleges have them.

You are absurd to even jokingly think if you aren't fit to use a firearm you're not fit to teach. You could be not fit to use one through rational dislike or refusal to use one. I've also known somewhat crippled teachers, there may be ones physically unfit to fire one but it didn't stop them from teaching because that wasn't an issue.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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03-10-2015, 07:29 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
I find it amusing that someone with NO firearm training (Yeah fossil dude - I"m talking about you) is such a fucking expert on the care, use, and deployment of firearms.


I can tell you have no firearm training -- because I do. I've been handling and shooting guns for close to 50 years.

The USCG gave me an expert rating with both the 1911, and the M16.

I qualified with a Remington 870. (no rating other than "qualify" existed at the time)

I was qualified at the tender young age of 19 to carry a weapon on boardings on foreign nation ships (mostly communist bloc) and DID - many times.

As a civilian - I have owned hundreds of guns and have been legally licensed to carry a concealed weapon - and have - daily since Sept 13, 2001. (just one of those funny coincidences in life that make remembering dates easy).

I've participated in the training of others - many others - including my own sister - to obtain their concealed carry license. I've been through the class dozens of times because of this. I'm quite versed in state and federal laws concerning firearm use - and the implications civilly and criminally of their use.

I've sold guns at a FFL dealership, and have done work on customers guns - and have built several of my own...

I've NEVER had ANY problems whatsoever with the ownership, possession or use of a firearm.


And you???

I'm guessing MAYBE - you read a book..

So - tell me - what exactly is your qualification to be such a presumptuous asshole on this subject???

Fossils - you know. I don't.

Guns - I know - you don't.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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03-10-2015, 07:31 PM
[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root ...
(03-10-2015 07:28 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 07:17 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  It's not feasible to put cops in schools. Why not use the resources you have available? If they aren't fit to learn how to properly handle a firearm, then perhaps they aren't fit to teach.

What? In many schools there are at least one cop around a lot of the time If not more. In the case of colleges, most campus's have campus police, even community colleges have them.

You are absurd to even jokingly think if you aren't fit to use a firearm you're not fit to teach. You could be not fit to use one through rational dislike or refusal to use one. I've also known somewhat crippled teachers, there may be ones physically unfit to fire one but it didn't stop them from teaching because that wasn't an issue.

Because knowing how to move your finger to depress a trigger and being capable of going Rambo on an active shooter are two slightly different things. And neither of them relates to teaching capacity in any way Facepalm

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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03-10-2015, 07:34 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(01-10-2015 04:31 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Fucking Muslim cunt (I know we don't know he's a Muslim, but comon... he's a Muslim...).
This, this is why we need to bomb the fucking shit out of them until they are but pulverized dust.

Earmuffs if you are going to make inane statements like this I will need to borrow your earmuffs.

Peace

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein
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03-10-2015, 08:23 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
Okay I'm gonna make a big ass post and then probably just go to bed and not bother keeping up. These threads just seem to grow too fast if you don't have the option to sit here and check and respond every 7 minutes.

First... And I'm not saying this because I personally give a shit about being offended or people playing nice, merely an observation. But whenever a hot topic comes up, whether it's guns, religion, politics in general, etc., it ultimately becomes a matter of each side saying about the other side something along the lines of "Dammit these people are so stupid how can they not get it? They WANT kids to die! Those mother fuckers! Every single thing wrong with the world is their fault!"

... And this view is complete bullshit. For either side. Intelligence has very little to do with this. There are both really smart and really dumb people who are pro gun or anti gun. Atheist or Scientologist. Green Party or Tea Party. Given the demographic of the stereotypical atheist, I realize that many of my views may be non-standard. But I have never used "You're stupid!" as an argument to make my point. About the worst I've mustered was my comment a few pages back about you guys being a bunch of hippies. That had nothing to do with the debate, however, and let me say now that if I offended any of you hippies with the hippie comment, I apologize... You oversensitive freaking hippies Laughat

That said, I'm not by any means saying stop name calling. I don't actually give a shit. I'm a super genius, arrogant as hell about that undeniable scientific fact, and it'll take a lot more than that to get through my kevlar plated thick skin.

Now about gun culture... I've rambled on about how I was raised before. I spent half my childhood in an isolated fishing village in Alaska and the other half on an island in the Puget Sound. Especially in Alaska, we carried guns. Period. Past 10 years old, me leaving the house unarmed probably would have earned me an ass whooping, and for good reason. There was dangerous shit out there (moose and the occasional bear), and we didn't have the option of having professional babysitters all over the place to monitor our every move and guarantee our safety. Then I left and joined the military where again, guns were just a part of life. Go to the outhouse to take a shit and forget to bring your gun with you, and you earn the military equivalent of the above mentioned ass whooping.

Now most of you hippies (again, I apologize, I know some of you are actually hipsters rather than hippies and I don't mean to generalize) grew up in a completely different world. If you walk into Starbucks and see someone sitting peacefully at his table, reading a newspaper, sipping on a mochalattefrappelowfatvegancappucinno, and who happens to be wearing a cowboy hat and have an AR-15 slung around his back, you're gonna freak. If I see the same thing, I'll think nothing of it. This isn't because of some kind logical inconsistency between the two of us, it's because you're hippies who, through no fault of your own, aren't used to this kind of thing. Therefore, cowboy hats are likely to freak you out. And maybe the AR-15 as well. The difference isn't rational, it's cultural.

Now moving on to the debate at hand... Both sides must realize we're quite unlikely to come to a rational agreement. Wherever our ways of thinking originated, we have different ways of dealing with the same problems. It doesn't mean we want different outcomes in mind. An anti gun hippie who believes in gun free zones doesn't want kids to be shot by nut cases any more than a gun nut like me does. We just happen to have different beliefs in regards to handling the situation, and those beliefs have almost nothing to do with logic.

So instead of hashing through the same bullshit debates we've already had 387 times, I'm simply going to state that I will continue owning the guns I wish to own (while in the U.S.), and if you have a problem with that then, by all means, build a hippie army to stop me. Because ultimately the world doesn't work based on laws in and of themselves, it works based on the leverage in place to back up the enforcement of those laws. And, unfortunately for those of you who have intentionally disarmed yourselves and placed yourselves at odds with me and people like me, I just so happen to be that leverage.

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03-10-2015, 09:26 PM (This post was last modified: 03-10-2015 09:42 PM by Ted Tucker.)
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
Yak,

If only it was about protection from Moose and Bears, however I think you know it goes quite a bit deeper. By simply ignoring the evidence and data that show that you are statistically much safer not having guns in the house falls into another one of those faith based beliefs systems. By the way Alaska is the state with the least restrictions on guns and what do you know it has the highest per capita gun related deaths:

Here are some more facts to ignore:

https://img.njdc.com/media/media/2015/09...echart.png

I'm off to bed as you all can see by my Hippie posts I don't have any strong opinions on this matter.

Peace, Love, Evidence

P.s. Why again do you need an AR-15 to buy a cup of coffee?

Out

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein
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