[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
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03-10-2015, 11:01 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
I've been giving some thought to the whole metal detectors in schools and it would work only if the stuidents have one entrance (some schools are set up that way, especially grammar schools.

All the other doors are locked (but I imagine can be opened on the inside).

Now, the problem is, after talking to my sons, the high school younger kid goes to has four separate entrances. Kids have "free" periods where they can leave campus and walk to the gocery store that's not too far.

Kids are often throughout the day bussed to a community outreach to learn other things. (that's different from the special needs kids, taking community activities a few times a week).

Now my older son is in college, with lots of buildings, and different campus locations (some are within walking distance and others require a shuttle ride).

My point is both have a high volume of students each grade of my younger son's high school has around between 500 and 700 students per grade...4 grades. That's a couple thousand kids coming and going between all the entrances....most have a time limit between buildings...Which I could easily access from the street -- without going through the office. Students would be caught in a huge logjam that would likely mimic the airport.

I guess what I'm saying it's not just about metal detectors....it's about having the people to watch them as well.

Our high school can't afford new science and algebra books (kids have to check them out of the library if they need to bring one home) -- where is the money for extra security staff and metal detectors going to come from?

Now I realize not all schools are set up this way. But this is the way it is here.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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03-10-2015, 11:10 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(03-10-2015 11:01 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I've been giving some thought to the whole metal detectors in schools and it would work only if the stuidents have one entrance (some schools are set up that way, especially grammar schools.

All the other doors are locked (but I imagine can be opened on the inside).

Now, the problem is, after talking to my sons, the high school younger kid goes to has four separate entrances. Kids have "free" periods where they can leave campus and walk to the gocery store that's not too far.

Kids are often throughout the day bussed to a community outreach to learn other things. (that's different from the special needs kids, taking community activities a few times a week).

Now my older son is in college, with lots of buildings, and different campus locations (some are within walking distance and others require a shuttle ride).

My point is both have a high volume of students each grade of my younger son's high school has around between 500 and 700 students per grade...4 grades. That's a couple thousand kids coming and going between all the entrances....most have a time limit between buildings...Which I could easily access from the street -- without going through the office. Students would be caught in a huge logjam that would likely mimic the airport.

I guess what I'm saying it's not just about metal detectors....it's about having the people to watch them as well.

Our high school can't afford new science and algebra books (kids have to check them out of the library if they need to bring one home) -- where is the money for extra security staff and metal detectors going to come from?

Now I realize not all schools are set up this way. But this is the way it is here.

We can't even keep contraband out of prisons, where we have inmates completely confined, without access to the outside, walking through metal detectors every time they leave their cells, not allowed physical contact with visitors, and able to be strip searched at any time at our discretion.

Having worked in various aspects of security, from military to jails to mines, my personal opinion is that even a multi million dollar system would be, at best, a temporary psychological deterrent that would take students with an interest in smuggling in weapons all of five minutes to figure out how to bypass.

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03-10-2015, 11:33 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(03-10-2015 11:10 PM)yakherder Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 11:01 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I've been giving some thought to the whole metal detectors in schools and it would work only if the stuidents have one entrance (some schools are set up that way, especially grammar schools.

All the other doors are locked (but I imagine can be opened on the inside).

Now, the problem is, after talking to my sons, the high school younger kid goes to has four separate entrances. Kids have "free" periods where they can leave campus and walk to the gocery store that's not too far.

Kids are often throughout the day bussed to a community outreach to learn other things. (that's different from the special needs kids, taking community activities a few times a week).

Now my older son is in college, with lots of buildings, and different campus locations (some are within walking distance and others require a shuttle ride).

My point is both have a high volume of students each grade of my younger son's high school has around between 500 and 700 students per grade...4 grades. That's a couple thousand kids coming and going between all the entrances....most have a time limit between buildings...Which I could easily access from the street -- without going through the office. Students would be caught in a huge logjam that would likely mimic the airport.

I guess what I'm saying it's not just about metal detectors....it's about having the people to watch them as well.

Our high school can't afford new science and algebra books (kids have to check them out of the library if they need to bring one home) -- where is the money for extra security staff and metal detectors going to come from?

Now I realize not all schools are set up this way. But this is the way it is here.

We can't even keep contraband out of prisons, where we have inmates completely confined, without access to the outside, walking through metal detectors every time they leave their cells, not allowed physical contact with visitors, and able to be strip searched at any time at our discretion.

Having worked in various aspects of security, from military to jails to mines, my personal opinion is that even a multi million dollar system would be, at best, a temporary psychological deterrent that would take students with an interest in smuggling in weapons all of five minutes to figure out how to bypass.

Yeah, I wish there was an easy fix. Maybe the problem is that we all want it fixed NOW...really we want it fixed yesterday.

But no one wants to spend the money on the things really needed. Like mental health care, education, poverty, and everything else that goes along with it. Or wait for it to start making a difference.

I'm ok with some moderate gun control, because I really do feel most people don't need at all them.

I know most will still argue that they do...Begin to get rid of the other issues, maybe they'd change their minds on their own...
*shrug*

I am hopeful that one day we will be able to put aside our pettiness and really get along....but it probably won't be for a few hundred years anyway. I do wonder what they'll say about us today -- debating things like guns while we have so many social issues.....


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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03-10-2015, 11:38 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(03-10-2015 09:41 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 09:37 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Not necessarily. One may provide both immediate aid at the same time you're transporting the patient to the hospital. Indeed, it's the sensible thing to do.

Don't let the perfect solution thwarts a good interim stopgap. The two can and should work together.

For the record, at one time I favored arming teachers, but came to think that it is a bad IDE for the reasons you've mentioned.

Like I said, it is saddening that it even comes to discussions about increasing security in schools. But if it is necessary to do in the short term in order to attain a long term solution, then so be it.

But I would fear that it would become justified as an actual solution by our politicians, and that any long term solution would become derailed under the guise that a solution was already in place.

I hear you, that is certainly a possibility. But the fact is that these shootings happen in other places as well -- restaurants, theaters, post offices (sick joke aside: a band I gigged with back in the 90s was named The Angry Postmen -- two members were USPS) -- and when those shootings continue happening, the stopgap nature of Anjele's suggestion will be clearer even to the recalcitrant.

There are some, as Yak has correctly pointed out, that will never change their mind on this topic -- on both sides. And you are right in pointing out that ideologues will use this stopgap to justify their own agendas -- from both sides. But unfortunately, there is no magic wand we can wave.

My own ideas aimed at solving the deeper problem are mandatory and recurring psychological evaluations of gun owners, coupled with biometric smart guns which can only be programmed by a Federal sales license-holder, who would perform a background check for all private sales, who would require the psych cert for the new buyer, before reprogramming for the new owner.

It's not perfect; we'd have to find a way to get rid of dumb iron, but it would over a period of decades work to reduce if not eliminate illegal ownership, I think. I don't think the political will is in place yet to take these steps, but the sad fact is that eventually, these shootings will continue until the political will is found.
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03-10-2015, 11:58 PM
Smile RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation o
Again... Guns aren't the problem. Would stricter gun laws prevent these tragedies? No. No, they wouldn't. If someone wants a gun, they will get a gun. The latest shooter had some of his guns given to him by relatives... no amount of gun laws can prevent that.

Guns. Are. Not. The. Problem.

What is?

Society. Specifically mental health and poverty. Violence and the propencity for violence towards others is directly linked to these two factors just like drunk driving is directly linked to drinking alcohol and driving instead of the vehicle itself.

Instead of focusing on "fixing" guns, we need to focus on the run-away epidemic in our country which is proper care and rehabilitation of the mentally I'll (in any capacity) and the poverty which is a cesspool for violent crimes.

These are the real issues. I'm so tired of people rah-rahing and jumping on the derp wagon about guns and gun control while ignoring these two issues. We all need to come together as a society and actively fight to get the mentally ill well and improve property.

We've proved that we, as a society, can come together to fixed or actively fight against societal problems or health problems: look at the fight against smoking. Or, the active stand against bullying. Or, the campaign against and education for teen pregnancy. These have proved successful.

If we educate, understand, empathize, and take a stand for these two issues as a society, gun violence WILL decrease. Not only will it decrease, but it is also a viable solution that makes the gun debate irrelavent; thus, eliminating the need to argue about the subject.

The whole gun debate is a huge strawman.

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04-10-2015, 05:20 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
Was just reading on one of the news channel websites that the Oregon shooter had a written letter on him explaining his reasoning for doing it.

One of these reasons was not being able to find a girlfriend. Just like the kid at the college in California that went on a rampage because women never liked him and always dated the alpha males.

Made me start looking at the other mass shooters recently. They all look like they're just not good with the ladies. Perhaps something in their personality scares the women away, leading to them feeling alone, depressed and angry at the world? I mean, all of these guys look like creepy dorks that play video games for hours every day, sucking down energy drinks and trolling the internet. Everyone notices after they do their killings that there was always something "off" with them. These dudes are never your typical gun loving, pickup truck driving, confederate flag flying, right wing redneck. They're virgin loser video game nerds.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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04-10-2015, 05:30 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
I'm convinced that the one thing these numbfucks all want is notoriety.

If we want to stop this shit - we have two choices.

1. Lock them in a cell, and refer to them as only a number till they croak.
2. Bury them in an unmarked grave.

Once we take out the fame incentive these fetid buckets of goat feces will find something else to do.

Perhaps we can have a spot each night on the evening news - when we'll feature one of these dirtbags killing themselves in creative, entertaining ways.

They get their 15 seconds of fame, we get rid of the trash.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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04-10-2015, 05:59 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 05:20 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  They're virgin loser video game nerds.

... Who have access to guns...

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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04-10-2015, 06:01 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 05:59 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 05:20 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  They're virgin loser video game nerds.

... Who have access to guns...

Everyone does.

Even in countries where guns are illegal.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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04-10-2015, 06:09 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 06:01 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 05:59 AM)morondog Wrote:  ... Who have access to guns...

Everyone does.

Even in countries where guns are illegal.

Not as easily as in the Land Of The Brave ™

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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