[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
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04-10-2015, 07:00 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 06:42 AM)Ted Tucker Wrote:  Yes absolutely we need to do all of the above, including voting in sensible gun laws. Education is the key! You can't get an education on Fox News.

I noted a comment on one of the Washington Post articles about the Oregon shooting that said the same thing about education.

The poster then went on to describe an anti-intellectual tendency in the U.S., to the point where ignorance is considered a virtue.

Some years ago, I recall KC bemoaning this same tendency in the church he used to attend.

I have a feeling that that aspect of U.S. culture needs to be addressed first.

Good luck with that, by the way.

Dodgy

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04-10-2015, 07:09 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting
(04-10-2015 06:58 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Sorry - I find it impossible to forgive such heinous crimes.

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04-10-2015, 07:20 AM (This post was last modified: 04-10-2015 07:34 AM by yakherder.)
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 06:53 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 10:57 PM)yakherder Wrote:  ...
My vision of perfect society is pre civilization tribal egalitarianism.
...

So, a kinda mix between Amish and communism?

Consider

Nah, the Amish are too advanced for it to work big picture. Even they depend on a proxy of organized violence for resources and protection. So long as society is dependent on scarce resources, even as rudimentary as farmland, my dream society is obsolete.

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04-10-2015, 07:23 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 07:00 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 06:42 AM)Ted Tucker Wrote:  Yes absolutely we need to do all of the above, including voting in sensible gun laws. Education is the key! You can't get an education on Fox News.

I noted a comment on one of the Washington Post articles about the Oregon shooting that said the same thing about education.

The poster then went on to describe an anti-intellectual tendency in the U.S., to the point where ignorance is considered a virtue.

Some years ago, I recall KC bemoaning this same tendency in the church he used to attend.

I have a feeling that that aspect of U.S. culture needs to be addressed first.

Good luck with that, by the way.

Dodgy


Legislating laws is relatively easy. Changing culture? Man, that takes effort, and there's no telling how many more people are going to have to needlessly die before our gun culture changes. We're at the point when gun and ammo sales go up after a major shooting, because the extremists are afraid that someone will take the product off the shelves in response to the tragedy; every mass shooting leads to a spike in weapon sales, how fucked up is that?


Just implementing Australian or European laws won't solve our problems, because the problem is our culture; and our culture is fucked up. Dodgy

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04-10-2015, 07:28 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 07:20 AM)yakherder Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 06:53 AM)DLJ Wrote:  So, a kinda mix between Amish and communism?

Consider

Nah, the Amish are too advanced for it to work big picture. Even they depend on a proxy of organized violence for resources and projection. So long as society is dependent on scarce resources, even as rudimentary as farmland, my dream society is obsolete.

Too bad that low life expectancy combined with a majority of your time being needed to gather resources to survive, there would be little incentive or time to dedicate toward higher education and egalitarian values. You kind of need to not be constantly worrying about starvation and predation before you can start contemplating loftier ideals. Undecided

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04-10-2015, 07:35 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 07:23 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  ...
Legislating laws is relatively easy. Changing culture? Man, that takes effort, and there's no telling how many more people are going to have to needlessly die before our gun culture changes.
...
the problem is our culture; and our culture is fucked up. Dodgy

Nah! It's easy.

Culture is simply the set of individual behaviours.
Individual behaviours are the result of the struggle / balance between organisational / group ethics and individual ethics.

Organisational ethics is covered by group principles and policies (i.e. legislation) and individual ethics can be influenced as indicated by the acceptance of gay marriage.

But it takes time.

If you want to cut a few corners regarding the gun problem, you can deploy older, monotheistic methods ... I think the campaign slogan was something like "convert or die." All you need is enough guns and ...

Oh!

Blush

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04-10-2015, 07:35 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 07:23 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 07:00 AM)DLJ Wrote:  I noted a comment on one of the Washington Post articles about the Oregon shooting that said the same thing about education.

The poster then went on to describe an anti-intellectual tendency in the U.S., to the point where ignorance is considered a virtue.

Some years ago, I recall KC bemoaning this same tendency in the church he used to attend.

I have a feeling that that aspect of U.S. culture needs to be addressed first.

Good luck with that, by the way.

Dodgy


Legislating laws is relatively easy. Changing culture? Man, that takes effort, and there's no telling how many more people are going to have to needlessly die before our gun culture changes. We're at the point when gun and ammo sales go up after a major shooting, because the extremists are afraid that someone will take the product off the shelves in response to the tragedy; every mass shooting leads to a spike in weapon sales, how fucked up is that?


Just implementing Australian or European laws won't solve our problems, because the problem is our culture; and our culture is fucked up. Dodgy

Except that the people that buy more guns and ammo after every mass shooting aren't the ones out there committing the mass shootings. People have this idea that these mass shooters are redneck gun nuts in pickup trucks that listen to country music chewing on tobacco and wearing farmers overalls. When in fact it's NEVER those types that do these things. The law abiding citizen that fears gun control and stockpiles guns and ammo are not the ones you have to worry about.

Gang bangers, lone wolf terrorists and people suffering from mental illness are your mass shooters in America. The "gun culture" people are not going to kill you.

EDIT: Unless you try to take their guns.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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04-10-2015, 07:39 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 07:28 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 07:20 AM)yakherder Wrote:  Nah, the Amish are too advanced for it to work big picture. Even they depend on a proxy of organized violence for resources and projection. So long as society is dependent on scarce resources, even as rudimentary as farmland, my dream society is obsolete.

Too bad that low life expectancy combined with a majority of your time being needed to gather resources to survive, there would be little incentive or time to dedicate toward higher education and egalitarian values. You kind of need to not be constantly worrying about starvation and predation before you can start contemplating loftier ideals. Undecided

I don't think the reality of pre civilization life is accurately portrayed in modern depictions, nonetheless your main points are still relevant, and the reason why I too believe my own ideal is unachievable. We're stuck in a reality we haven't yet evolved to cope with, and doing what we have to do to make it work is always going to make us feel out of place.

'Murican Canadian
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04-10-2015, 08:08 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
   

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04-10-2015, 08:45 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 06:58 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  When somebody goes on a shooting rampage, I figure they've relinquished their rights as a human being - and now have the same status as a rabid dog.

...

Sorry - I find it impossible to forgive such heinous crimes.

Even though "the problem is not guns, it's mental health care". I mean, those poor lil' boys, they're just misunderstood virgin loser types. Not True Gun Owners.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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