[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
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04-10-2015, 08:58 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
Incidentally what's the gender breakdown of people who perpetrate mass shootings, just outta interest. I'm gonna make a bet that it's 100% male?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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04-10-2015, 09:01 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 08:58 AM)morondog Wrote:  Incidentally what's the gender breakdown of people who perpetrate mass shootings, just outta interest. I'm gonna make a bet that it's 100% male?

http://timelines.latimes.com/deadliest-s...-rampages/

A scroll through this shows one woman who shot three people.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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04-10-2015, 09:15 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 06:28 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I don't know what motivates them. I'm more familiar with Americans.

Think you could substitute USA for PRC in the following quote without objection:

"Prof. Joshua Miller, chair of Social Welfare Policy at Smith College, attributed the attacks to stress caused by "rapid social change, mass migrations, increasing disparities in wealth and weakening of traditions. 'Some sociologists believe some of these attacks may be due to the PRC government's failure to diagnose and treat mental illness.' "

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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04-10-2015, 09:16 AM (This post was last modified: 04-10-2015 09:20 AM by Ted Tucker.)
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 07:00 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 06:42 AM)Ted Tucker Wrote:  Yes absolutely we need to do all of the above, including voting in sensible gun laws. Education is the key! You can't get an education on Fox News.

I noted a comment on one of the Washington Post articles about the Oregon shooting that said the same thing about education.

The poster then went on to describe an anti-intellectual tendency in the U.S., to the point where ignorance is considered a virtue.

Some years ago, I recall KC bemoaning this same tendency in the church he used to attend.

I have a feeling that that aspect of U.S. culture needs to be addressed first.

Good luck with that, by the way.

Dodgy

I may be biased as my wife is Swedish and I have spent a good amount of time in Sweden, a country that seems to have figured a few things out. I don't know how guns tie into the stats below but by hunch is we are simply talking about fear and you can change fear with education:

Norway, Iceland, Australia, Canada, Sweden, Switzerland, Belgium, Japan, the Netherlands, Denmark, and the United Kingdom are among the least religious societies on earth. According to the United Nations' Human Development Report they are also the healthiest, as indicated by life expectancy, adult literacy, per capita income, educational attainment, gender equality, homicide rate, and infant mortality.

The United States is unique among wealthy democracies in its level of religious adherence; it is also uniquely beleaguered by high rates of homicide, abortion, teen pregnancy, sexually transmitted disease, and infant mortality. The same comparison holds true within the United States itself: Southern and Midwestern states, characterized by the highest levels of religious literalism, are especially plagued by the above indicators of societal dysfunction, while the comparatively secular states of the Northeast conform to European norms.

Three of the five most dangerous cities in the United States are in the pious state of Texas. The twelve states with the highest rates of burglary are the most religious.

The ratio of salaries paid to top-tier CEOs and those paid to the same firms' average employees: in Britain it is 24:1, in France, 15:1; in Sweden, 13:1; in the United States it is 475:1.

The rate of STD's among American teens is seventy times higher than it is among their peers in the Netherlands and France.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein
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04-10-2015, 09:31 AM (This post was last modified: 04-10-2015 09:50 AM by Black Eagle.)
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
While you guys work on getting sensible gun control laws, whatever they are, I am going to work on banning lawn fertilizer and diesel fuel. McVeigh did a pretty good job with a van full of that shit in Oklahoma City -- killed 168 and wounded another 680 -- plus brought down a hell of a big building. The other thing we have learned recently is nobody needs pressure cookers [Boston]. If you can't cook a decent meal without a pressure cooker, maybe you don't need to eat.

The worst school massacre that I am aware of was in Beslan a few years ago. As I recall, almost 400 people were killed and Mother Russia doesn't exactly have lax gun laws. The murder weapons there were mostly homemade bombs but a few guns were involved. [My wife and I were in Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan when Beslan happened. Most people don't even remember Beslan because it didn't happen in 'Murica.]

Now, the best thing to do is ban religion. Beslan was religiously motivated [Chechens] and 9/11 was a religious fiasco and Sabra and Shatila, where Ariel Sharon and the fucking jews massacred perhaps as many as 3500 unarmed refugees -- men, women, and children. [I absolutely do NOT believe in freedom of religion.] But, in the meantime, let's get rid of lawn fertilizer and fuel oil.
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04-10-2015, 09:35 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(03-10-2015 11:01 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I've been giving some thought to the whole metal detectors in schools and it would work only if the stuidents have one entrance (some schools are set up that way, especially grammar schools.

All the other doors are locked (but I imagine can be opened on the inside).

That's what my high school did.

(03-10-2015 11:01 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Now my older son is in college, with lots of buildings, and different campus locations (some are within walking distance and others require a shuttle ride).

Every building on campus was outfitted similarly. One unlocked manned entrance and dozens of exits which could be opened only from the inside.

(03-10-2015 11:01 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Our high school can't afford new science and algebra books (kids have to check them out of the library if they need to bring one home) -- where is the money for extra security staff and metal detectors going to come from?

My school was staffed by county police. They seemed to enjoy it. Not every school in my county was outfitted the same. My school was much higher risk than many because it was right in the middle of MS-13 territory and there had been incidents which resulted in the extra security.

Oh, and the fact that textbooks are even used in our educational system in this day and age is a fucking scam. Especially in college where the textbooks are $100 or more. Everything can be found online nowadays. You just need one internet connection and a large screen display per classroom.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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04-10-2015, 09:39 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 07:35 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 07:23 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Legislating laws is relatively easy. Changing culture? Man, that takes effort, and there's no telling how many more people are going to have to needlessly die before our gun culture changes. We're at the point when gun and ammo sales go up after a major shooting, because the extremists are afraid that someone will take the product off the shelves in response to the tragedy; every mass shooting leads to a spike in weapon sales, how fucked up is that?


Just implementing Australian or European laws won't solve our problems, because the problem is our culture; and our culture is fucked up. Dodgy

Except that the people that buy more guns and ammo after every mass shooting aren't the ones out there committing the mass shootings. People have this idea that these mass shooters are redneck gun nuts in pickup trucks that listen to country music chewing on tobacco and wearing farmers overalls. When in fact it's NEVER those types that do these things. The law abiding citizen that fears gun control and stockpiles guns and ammo are not the ones you have to worry about.

Gang bangers, lone wolf terrorists and people suffering from mental illness are your mass shooters in America. The "gun culture" people are not going to kill you.

EDIT: Unless you try to take their guns.

And yet our culture is saturated with guns, due in no small part to the pervasive gun culture; making it far easier for those who want a gun and shouldn't have one, to get one. The gun nuts might not be the ones committing the shootings, but they're an integral part of a larger machine that helps to enable them to happen.

Also, do you remember the arsenal some of these mass shooters have had? How does that not qualify them for 'gun nut' status?

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04-10-2015, 09:46 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(03-10-2015 04:32 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 04:24 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Not to mention the fact that in order to be useful in self defense, guns in classrooms would need to be accessible. Meaning that accessible guns would be there in the same location as the kids. That is a recipe for disaster.

So when a police officer goes into a school with his/her gun, is that a recipe for disaster?

Nope. But when a teacher does it is.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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04-10-2015, 09:51 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 09:39 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 07:35 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Except that the people that buy more guns and ammo after every mass shooting aren't the ones out there committing the mass shootings. People have this idea that these mass shooters are redneck gun nuts in pickup trucks that listen to country music chewing on tobacco and wearing farmers overalls. When in fact it's NEVER those types that do these things. The law abiding citizen that fears gun control and stockpiles guns and ammo are not the ones you have to worry about.

Gang bangers, lone wolf terrorists and people suffering from mental illness are your mass shooters in America. The "gun culture" people are not going to kill you.

EDIT: Unless you try to take their guns.

And yet our culture is saturated with guns, due in no small part to the pervasive gun culture; making it far easier for those who want a gun and shouldn't have one, to get one. The gun nuts might not be the ones committing the shootings, but they're an integral part of a larger machine that helps to enable them to happen.

Also, do you remember the arsenal some of these mass shooters have had? How does that not qualify them for 'gun nut' status?
There are definitely different types of gun nuts. I was just saying that some people have a preconceived notion that right wing redneck NRA members are the mass shooters. Not sure why this perception exists.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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04-10-2015, 09:57 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(03-10-2015 04:41 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  This is a funny picture! Shy

[Image: panties-in-a-bunch-3.jpg]

That is all.

Ah good old chippy, I remember him well. Sharp cat. I mean for an asshole and shit.

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Chippy, gone but not forgotten.




There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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