[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
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04-10-2015, 02:15 PM
[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root ...
(04-10-2015 02:12 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 02:03 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  And certainly don't overwhelm the arguments against better legislation and regulations.

I believe the argument is more over what constitutes better regulation / legislation given that some aspects of the situation in the USA are unique. Also there are laws in place and changing them will involve a lot of challenges even if the changes are popular.

Except our politicians aren't actually open to any discussions on regulations or laws with respect to guns. Thanks to pressure from the pro-gun lobby and a republican/conservative congress, that won't change any time soon either.

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04-10-2015, 02:18 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 02:03 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 01:57 PM)Chas Wrote:  Amusing, but inaccurate.

We know that guns exist and dangers exist.

Accurate and unfortunate that otherwise rational people use the same arguments theists do.

We also have the statistics and facts to demonstrate that that the odds of the needs to use a gun, are nowhere near what gun advocates assume. And certainly don't overwhelm the arguments against better legislation and regulations.

It's really not accurate. What it is like is homeowner's insurance.

The probability of my house burning down is very small, yet every year I cough up hundreds of dollars just in case.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-10-2015, 02:19 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
Any stats for polls regarding popularity of ideas like stricter gun laws? If they're not popular then even without gun lobby etc there's a steep hill to climb.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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04-10-2015, 02:19 PM
[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root ...
(04-10-2015 02:18 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 02:03 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Accurate and unfortunate that otherwise rational people use the same arguments theists do.

We also have the statistics and facts to demonstrate that that the odds of the needs to use a gun, are nowhere near what gun advocates assume. And certainly don't overwhelm the arguments against better legislation and regulations.

It's really not accurate. What it is like is homeowners insurance.

The probability of my house burning down is very small, yet every year I cough up hundreds of dollars just in case.

A perceived threat is used as an excuse to believe something is necessary. Despite evidence about the negative aspects of that thing and impossibly low odds of its rational use.

It is exactly like Pascal's wager. It is Pascal's wager.

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04-10-2015, 02:21 PM
[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root ...
(04-10-2015 02:19 PM)morondog Wrote:  Any stats for polls regarding popularity of ideas like stricter gun laws? If they're not popular then even without gun lobby etc there's a steep hill to climb.

After newtown, polls showed public support heavily in favor of legislation and regulation of guns.

Something like
>80% are for background checks

But politicians continue to ignore these facts

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04-10-2015, 02:23 PM
[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root ...
(04-10-2015 02:19 PM)morondog Wrote:  Any stats for polls regarding popularity of ideas like stricter gun laws? If they're not popular then even without gun lobby etc there's a steep hill to climb.

A quick search on Gallup polls shows the historical trends on gun control questions. The largest group for decades has remained being in favor of stricter gun laws.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

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04-10-2015, 02:32 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 02:19 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 02:18 PM)Chas Wrote:  It's really not accurate. What it is like is homeowners insurance.

The probability of my house burning down is very small, yet every year I cough up hundreds of dollars just in case.

A perceived threat is used as an excuse to believe something is necessary. Despite evidence about the negative aspects of that thing and impossibly low odds of its rational use.

It is exactly like Pascal's wager. It is Pascal's wager.

We know that threats actually exist. Pascal's wager is about believing without evidence.

So, no, it is not Pascal's wager.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-10-2015, 02:33 PM
[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root ...
(04-10-2015 02:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 02:19 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  A perceived threat is used as an excuse to believe something is necessary. Despite evidence about the negative aspects of that thing and impossibly low odds of its rational use.

It is exactly like Pascal's wager. It is Pascal's wager.

We know that threats actually exist. Pascal's wager is about believing without evidence.

So, no, it is not Pascal's wager.

Pascal's wager is about believing because of perceived threat. That's the exact argument made in the quote I called equivalent with Pascal's wager.

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04-10-2015, 02:35 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 02:19 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 02:18 PM)Chas Wrote:  It's really not accurate. What it is like is homeowners insurance.

The probability of my house burning down is very small, yet every year I cough up hundreds of dollars just in case.

A perceived threat is used as an excuse to believe something is necessary. Despite evidence about the negative aspects of that thing and impossibly low odds of its rational use.

It is exactly like Pascal's wager. It is Pascal's wager.

Except unlike the wager there is evidence of many degrees and forms to demonstrate house fires exist. It's why insurance isn't irrational.

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04-10-2015, 02:35 PM
[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root ...
(04-10-2015 02:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 02:19 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  A perceived threat is used as an excuse to believe something is necessary. Despite evidence about the negative aspects of that thing and impossibly low odds of its rational use.

It is exactly like Pascal's wager. It is Pascal's wager.

We know that threats actually exist. Pascal's wager is about believing without evidence.

So, no, it is not Pascal's wager.

It would also explain in part why so many conservative Christians use it as an excuse. But it doesn't explain why people who consider themselves rational skeptics would use it. Unless they're blind to their irrationality with respect to guns. An object they've seemingly placed their faith in.

Welcome to America, church of the gun

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