[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
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04-10-2015, 02:37 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 02:23 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 02:19 PM)morondog Wrote:  Any stats for polls regarding popularity of ideas like stricter gun laws? If they're not popular then even without gun lobby etc there's a steep hill to climb.

A quick search on Gallup polls shows the historical trends on gun control questions. The largest group for decades has remained being in favor of stricter gun laws.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

While, at the same time, more Americans favor protecting the right to own a gun over the need for stricter controls.

http://www.people-press.org/2014/12/10/g...un-rights/

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-10-2015, 02:38 PM
Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 02:21 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  After newtown, polls showed public support heavily in favor of legislation and regulation of guns.

Something like
>80% are for background checks

But politicians continue to ignore these facts

OK so there is some popular support for changes in gun legislation - perhaps enough to get changes passed.

Is there any consensus view about what the correct strategy to follow *is*? I appreciate that background checks are an idea, database of gun ownership is another. What problem are the changes trying to solve and is there any body of scholarship on how well these proposals may be expected to work if enacted?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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04-10-2015, 02:39 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 02:35 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 02:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  We know that threats actually exist. Pascal's wager is about believing without evidence.

So, no, it is not Pascal's wager.

It would also explain in part why so many conservative Christians use it as an excuse. But it doesn't explain why people who consider themselves rational skeptics would use it. Unless they're blind to their irrationality with respect to guns. An object they've seemingly placed their faith in.

Welcome to America, church of the gun

Not everyone lives and works in a safe place.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-10-2015, 02:40 PM
[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root ...
(04-10-2015 02:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 02:23 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  A quick search on Gallup polls shows the historical trends on gun control questions. The largest group for decades has remained being in favor of stricter gun laws.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

While, at the same time, more Americans favor protecting the right to own a gun over the need for stricter controls.

http://www.people-press.org/2014/12/10/g...un-rights/

A shining example of how the straw man of big government coming for people's guns drives the masses to react. At no point has it ever been seriously proposed that the 2nd amendment be repealed or rendered null and void with a new amendment.

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04-10-2015, 02:42 PM
[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root ...
(04-10-2015 02:38 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 02:21 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  After newtown, polls showed public support heavily in favor of legislation and regulation of guns.

Something like
>80% are for background checks

But politicians continue to ignore these facts

OK so there is some popular support for changes in gun legislation - perhaps enough to get changes passed.

Is there any consensus view about what the correct strategy to follow *is*? I appreciate that background checks are an idea, database of gun ownership is another. What problem are the changes trying to solve and is there any body of scholarship on how well these proposals may be expected to work if enacted?

Data is limited on almost all facets of gun violence in the US. Our congress just refused an amendment that would allow the CDC to collect data on why mass shootings occur.

We have a congress so inept at doing anything sensible, that they are ensuring that the grey areas remain not only grey, but out of public sight.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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04-10-2015, 02:43 PM
[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root ...
(04-10-2015 02:39 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 02:35 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  It would also explain in part why so many conservative Christians use it as an excuse. But it doesn't explain why people who consider themselves rational skeptics would use it. Unless they're blind to their irrationality with respect to guns. An object they've seemingly placed their faith in.

Welcome to America, church of the gun

Not everyone lives and works in a safe place.

No one ever said they did.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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04-10-2015, 02:44 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 02:40 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  At no point has it ever been seriously proposed that the 2nd amendment be repealed or rendered null and void with a new amendment.

Actually I did, but I don't count 'cos I'm not a Merkin Tongue

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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04-10-2015, 02:47 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 01:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Do you always carry a weapon because you're afraid something might happen, despite most days nothing does?

Do you always leave your smoke alarms on even though most days you don't need them? Do you wear a seatbelt?

As TBD would say, "smoke alarms and seatbelts....pascal's wager for fires and automobile accidents"
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04-10-2015, 02:48 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 02:44 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 02:40 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  At no point has it ever been seriously proposed that the 2nd amendment be repealed or rendered null and void with a new amendment.

Actually I did, but I don't count 'cos I'm not a Merkin Tongue

I've said if you want to keep it, live up to the militia element that is ignored. Abolish the standing army and make everyone get militia training.

Or more sensibly, be like some other nations where you have a slight compulsory militia training. Or maintain if people want to own guns, they have to go through militia gun training to qualify for a gun.

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04-10-2015, 02:48 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 02:42 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Data is limited on almost all facets of gun violence in the US. Our congress just refused an amendment that would allow the CDC to collect data on why mass shootings occur.

We have a congress so inept at doing anything sensible, that they are ensuring that the grey areas remain not only grey, but out of public sight.

Um. Was there any justification offered for refusing the amendment?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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