[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
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04-10-2015, 03:40 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 03:39 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 03:39 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Maybe he was just saying - do you believe in god - yes, here meet your maker.

May have just been something he rehearsed to say with no real deep meaning.

Until the facts are in (whatever are available) it's speculation as to why he did or said anything.
I'm sorry but if it didn't hold any significance to the shooter that he would have shot all in the head indiscriminately regardless of their answer.

How do you 'know' that?

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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04-10-2015, 03:42 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 03:40 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 03:39 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I'm sorry but if it didn't hold any significance to the shooter that he would have shot all in the head indiscriminately regardless of their answer.

How do you 'know' that?
Everything I have read about the shooting states that he asked what a religion was or if a person was Christian specifically. If they replied that they were Christian they got shot in the head and murdered if they did not reply that they were Christian their lives were not taken. Any rational thought process would allow you to believe that if it was not motivated by some anti Christianity motive then the person would not have asked about the religion at all and or be shot each individual to kill them.
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04-10-2015, 03:56 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 03:24 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 11:58 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Again... Guns aren't the problem. Would stricter gun laws prevent these tragedies? No. No, they wouldn't. If someone wants a gun, they will get a gun. The latest shooter had some of his guns given to him by relatives... no amount of gun laws can prevent that.

Guns. Are. Not. The. Problem.

What is?

Society. Specifically mental health and poverty. Violence and the propencity for violence towards others is directly linked to these two factors just like drunk driving is directly linked to drinking alcohol and driving instead of the vehicle itself.

Instead of focusing on "fixing" guns, we need to focus on the run-away epidemic in our country which is proper care and rehabilitation of the mentally I'll (in any capacity) and the poverty which is a cesspool for violent crimes.

These are the real issues. I'm so tired of people rah-rahing and jumping on the derp wagon about guns and gun control while ignoring these two issues. We all need to come together as a society and actively fight to get the mentally ill well and improve property.

We've proved that we, as a society, can come together to fixed or actively fight against societal problems or health problems: look at the fight against smoking. Or, the active stand against bullying. Or, the campaign against and education for teen pregnancy. These have proved successful.

If we educate, understand, empathize, and take a stand for these two issues as a society, gun violence WILL decrease. Not only will it decrease, but it is also a viable solution that makes the gun debate irrelavent; thus, eliminating the need to argue about the subject.

The whole gun debate is a huge strawman.

Reposting for pertinence.

No amount of guns laws will stop the current epidemic we're facing. Maybe if the government executed anyone on sight with even a suspicion of having a gun (ironic as that is) would this change things.

Violent crimes aren't just people with guns shooting others. As Dark Helmet listed, it's a whole lot else. Chopping off one arm of an octopus doesn't stop it from hunting.

There has to be a culture change and a change in how we care for the mentally ill and curb poverty.

Again... these are the factors DIRECTLY linked to violent crimes. Not guns. Not gun laws.

Change these things via societal change, and the whole gun debate all but goes away... because, like DH said, it's not law abiding citizens committing these crimes.

But continue to straw man away. That's the good thing about straw men. They're always there to grab onto and shake and take the blame while the real crises is allowed to fester and rot away society.

i thinks I've been pretty consistent when I say we need much better education, we need to stem poverty and have much better mental health care.

I do kinda think the gun issue is a smoke screen.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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04-10-2015, 04:00 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 03:42 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 03:40 PM)Anjele Wrote:  How do you 'know' that?
Everything I have read about the shooting states that he asked what a religion was or if a person was Christian specifically. If they replied that they were Christian they got shot in the head and murdered if they did not reply that they were Christian their lives were not taken. Any rational thought process would allow you to believe that if it was not motivated by some anti Christianity motive then the person would not have asked about the religion at all and or be shot each individual to kill them.

Didn't the Columbine shooters also ask the same question? Maybe his asking it was a copycat thing.

Don't start the Christian persecution crap.

You don't know what his thought process was. You are speculating.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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04-10-2015, 04:01 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 04:00 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 03:42 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Everything I have read about the shooting states that he asked what a religion was or if a person was Christian specifically. If they replied that they were Christian they got shot in the head and murdered if they did not reply that they were Christian their lives were not taken. Any rational thought process would allow you to believe that if it was not motivated by some anti Christianity motive then the person would not have asked about the religion at all and or be shot each individual to kill them.

Didn't the Columbine shooters also ask the same question? Maybe his asking it was a copycat thing.

Don't start the Christian persecution crap.

You don't know what his thought process was. You are speculating.
I have no clue what is actually thought process was. But I do know that if you wasn't discriminating against Christians that he wouldn't have killed only Christians.
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04-10-2015, 04:03 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 04:01 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 04:00 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Didn't the Columbine shooters also ask the same question? Maybe his asking it was a copycat thing.

Don't start the Christian persecution crap.

You don't know what his thought process was. You are speculating.
I have no clue what is actually thought process was. But I do know that if you wasn't discriminating against Christians that he wouldn't have killed only Christians.

Read what I said...could have been a copycat thing. Until the available facts are in, the rest is speculation. And even when all facts are in, trying to figure out what was in his head at that moment is still going to be speculation.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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04-10-2015, 04:03 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
I'm not attacking atheists in any way shape or form. In fact my first post stated that usually you would considered an atheist not to be passionate about a religious crime. My whole thing is a crime against innocent children it must be stopped at all costs. I was just bringing up the conversation I was just curious what others thought I'm not attacking atheist like I said just wanted their input you don't have to be defensive. Stable ex military marksman should be posted at every school with armed assault rifles.
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04-10-2015, 04:08 PM (This post was last modified: 04-10-2015 04:13 PM by TheBeardedDude.)
[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root ...
(04-10-2015 03:56 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 03:24 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Reposting for pertinence.

No amount of guns laws will stop the current epidemic we're facing. Maybe if the government executed anyone on sight with even a suspicion of having a gun (ironic as that is) would this change things.

Violent crimes aren't just people with guns shooting others. As Dark Helmet listed, it's a whole lot else. Chopping off one arm of an octopus doesn't stop it from hunting.

There has to be a culture change and a change in how we care for the mentally ill and curb poverty.

Again... these are the factors DIRECTLY linked to violent crimes. Not guns. Not gun laws.

Change these things via societal change, and the whole gun debate all but goes away... because, like DH said, it's not law abiding citizens committing these crimes.

But continue to straw man away. That's the good thing about straw men. They're always there to grab onto and shake and take the blame while the real crises is allowed to fester and rot away society.

i thinks I've been pretty consistent when I say we need much better education, we need to stem poverty and have much better mental health care.

I do kinda think the gun issue is a smoke screen.

It isn't a smokescreen, it is a component of the problem.

The straw man is saying that people advocating for better gun laws and regulations are advocating that it solves the entirety of the problems with mass murderers and violent crime. No one is claiming that better gun laws alone solve these issues.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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04-10-2015, 04:26 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 03:42 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 03:40 PM)Anjele Wrote:  How do you 'know' that?
Everything I have read about the shooting states that he asked what a religion was or if a person was Christian specifically. If they replied that they were Christian they got shot in the head and murdered if they did not reply that they were Christian their lives were not taken. Any rational thought process would allow you to believe that if it was not motivated by some anti Christianity motive then the person would not have asked about the religion at all and or be shot each individual to kill them.


Quote:Despite some reports to the contrary, McGowan said Harper-Mercer didn't appear to target Christians in particular.

"He didn't really, honestly," McGowan said in a quiet voice while standing on the doorstep of his house in Roseburg, Oregon, on Saturday morning.

McGowan’s right arm was wrapped up after surgery from a gunshot wound.

"Obviously he was asking what religion, but he wasn't really just targeting. He was kind of just saying, 'Oh, since you have a God, you'll be joining him in a little bit," McGowan told The News.

"It wasn't really like, 'I'm targeting you and I'm going to kill you,'" he said.

McGowan said the calm killer seemed resigned to taking his own life, too.

Seems earlier reports (most gotten third or fourth hand) were mistaken.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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04-10-2015, 04:28 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(04-10-2015 04:26 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(04-10-2015 03:42 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Everything I have read about the shooting states that he asked what a religion was or if a person was Christian specifically. If they replied that they were Christian they got shot in the head and murdered if they did not reply that they were Christian their lives were not taken. Any rational thought process would allow you to believe that if it was not motivated by some anti Christianity motive then the person would not have asked about the religion at all and or be shot each individual to kill them.


Quote:Despite some reports to the contrary, McGowan said Harper-Mercer didn't appear to target Christians in particular.

"He didn't really, honestly," McGowan said in a quiet voice while standing on the doorstep of his house in Roseburg, Oregon, on Saturday morning.

McGowan’s right arm was wrapped up after surgery from a gunshot wound.

"Obviously he was asking what religion, but he wasn't really just targeting. He was kind of just saying, 'Oh, since you have a God, you'll be joining him in a little bit," McGowan told The News.

"It wasn't really like, 'I'm targeting you and I'm going to kill you,'" he said.

McGowan said the calm killer seemed resigned to taking his own life, too.

Seems earlier reports (most gotten third or fourth hand) were mistaken.
So he was checking to make sure that the people we're going to go to heaven before he killed them? Head still kind of single and out Christians isn't it?
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