[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
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06-10-2015, 01:13 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(06-10-2015 01:00 PM)Ted Tucker Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 08:42 AM)kineo Wrote:  There are other societal issues behind that, that could be solved if Japan took a really hard look at their own society. We also have issues that need solving. But guns certainly make changing you've pulled the trigger a non-option.

Personally, I suffer from depression myself. I won't be having a gun in my home. I don't want one. If I need protection, mace will have to suffice. I'm not suicidal, but I suppose you never know if something pushes you to that edge.

Lots of people who think they're fine can have something in their lives trigger depression- temporary or chronic- and having a gun around them is dangerous.

I personally think there ought to be a ban on guns unless you can show a need to have one. But I don't see that ever happening in the US. At least not in the short term. A more reasonable suggestion would possible include a combination of stricter controls in place, bans on assault rifles, bans on large magazine sizes, licensing requirements, gun safety requirements, closing the gun show loopholes, better tracking of gun violence, and mental health screening. The bottom line is, it's got to be more difficult to get guns or we'll never see a decline in gun violence. It seems that the price of gun freedom is gun deaths.

Yes let's take a look at Japan and France as they compare to the U.S. :

The U.S. has guns, making them the weapon of choice apparently. But a lot of countries don't have guns, yet somehow their murder rates are far higher than the U.S. The chart you posted is just firearms related homicide. When you include all homicides with all types of weapons, America is a fairly safe place compared to the rest of the world.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_...icide_rate

In fact, one could theorize that our guns keep us safer. The knowledge that anyone could own a firearm probably keeps a lot of people from criminal activity.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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06-10-2015, 01:21 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(06-10-2015 01:13 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 01:00 PM)Ted Tucker Wrote:  Yes let's take a look at Japan and France as they compare to the U.S. :

The U.S. has guns, making them the weapon of choice apparently. But a lot of countries don't have guns, yet somehow their murder rates are far higher than the U.S. The chart you posted is just firearms related homicide. When you include all homicides with all types of weapons, America is a fairly safe place compared to the rest of the world.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_...icide_rate

In fact, one could theorize that our guns keep us safer. The knowledge that anyone could own a firearm probably keeps a lot of people from criminal activity.

Yes The graph that I posted is only looking at Data for Developed Nations.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein
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06-10-2015, 01:29 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(06-10-2015 01:21 PM)Ted Tucker Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 01:13 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  The U.S. has guns, making them the weapon of choice apparently. But a lot of countries don't have guns, yet somehow their murder rates are far higher than the U.S. The chart you posted is just firearms related homicide. When you include all homicides with all types of weapons, America is a fairly safe place compared to the rest of the world.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_...icide_rate

In fact, one could theorize that our guns keep us safer. The knowledge that anyone could own a firearm probably keeps a lot of people from criminal activity.

Yes The graph that I posted is only looking at Data for Developed Nations.

They left out Mexico, and admit it at the bottom of the chart. I wonder why? Perhaps Mexicans are a large cause of gun violence in America, as is the minority population in general.

In fact, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that America's gun violence would be similar to European countries if the gang/drug violence were removed from the stats.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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06-10-2015, 01:30 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(06-10-2015 01:29 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 01:21 PM)Ted Tucker Wrote:  Yes The graph that I posted is only looking at Data for Developed Nations.

They left out Mexico, and admit it at the bottom of the chart. I wonder why? Perhaps Mexicans are a large cause of gun violence in America, as is the minority population in general.

Or it's not a developed nation comparable to other first world countries....

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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06-10-2015, 01:32 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(06-10-2015 01:30 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 01:29 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  They left out Mexico, and admit it at the bottom of the chart. I wonder why? Perhaps Mexicans are a large cause of gun violence in America, as is the minority population in general.

Or it's not a developed nation comparable to other first world countries....

It is, according to the group they got their info from, but they left it off the chart because they have an agenda, and mexico shares a border with the U.S. Obviously, Mexico's violence is spilling across the border in the form of immigration and drug wars. Mexico meets the economic criteria to be listed as a developed nation.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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06-10-2015, 01:35 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(06-10-2015 01:32 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 01:30 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Or it's not a developed nation comparable to other first world countries....

It is, according to the group they got their info from, but they left it off the chart because they have an agenda. Mexico meets the economic criteria to be listed as a developed nation.

Yes, that must be what it is. Mexico is a comparable nation but in order to deceive you with their "agenda" they tell you they omit it so that they can hide it from you.

Which only begs the question, if they were being deceptive, why even inform you of the omission? It couldn't possibly be because Mexico's infrastructure, economy, and drug cartels skew Mexico's violent crime rates and that their socioeconomic standing is comparable to 3rd world countries in places and not on par with countries like the USA or France or the UK, etc

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06-10-2015, 01:38 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(06-10-2015 01:35 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 01:32 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  It is, according to the group they got their info from, but they left it off the chart because they have an agenda. Mexico meets the economic criteria to be listed as a developed nation.
It couldn't possibly be because Mexico's infrastructure, economy, and drug cartels

Ahhhh. Just like here. Remove the stats from gang violence/drug wars. America looks pretty tame, equal to countries without this problem. Maybe Trump is right about this big wall.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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06-10-2015, 01:38 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(06-10-2015 01:38 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 01:35 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  It couldn't possibly be because Mexico's infrastructure, economy, and drug cartels

Ahhhh. Just like here. Remove the stats from gang violence/drug wars. America looks pretty tame, equal to countries without this problem. Maybe Trump is right about this big wall.

Facepalm

Cognitive Dissonance

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06-10-2015, 01:57 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(06-10-2015 01:38 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 01:38 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Ahhhh. Just like here. Remove the stats from gang violence/drug wars. America looks pretty tame, equal to countries without this problem. Maybe Trump is right about this big wall.

Facepalm

Cognitive Dissonance
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"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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06-10-2015, 02:16 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(06-10-2015 01:12 PM)Ted Tucker Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 01:04 PM)kineo Wrote:  To be fair, we were talking specifically about suicides. Your graph shows homicides.

Yes true my bad. However the graph does show how we stand compared to the rest of the world on gun violence which is appalling.

Out of the 22 countries that are shown as having a higher murder rate than France in that graph, all except the United States, Switzerland, and Sweden have a lower gun ownership rate. Most by a considerable amount, as France actually has a relatively high level of gun ownership despite it's reputation by U.S. gun owners who don't know any better. Exactly what correlation is it trying to demonstrate? Because any attempt at linking gun ownership to gun murder rate completely falls apart once you remove the United States as an outlier.

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