[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
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06-10-2015, 03:30 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(06-10-2015 03:26 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 03:11 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I've worked in law enforcement for many many years. Trust me when I say we have to tread carefully in everything we do when it comes to minorities. We are much more careful in our interactions with minorities than with whites. I'm not talking about the idiots that kill unarmed people, I'm talking about your everyday Joe in law enforcement, security, even a rent a cop. Everything always comes back to "you only stopped me because you're a racist." Or they lie and say we said the N word. My first wife was half Indian and half African American. I have two kids with her. Yet I've had to defend myself against racial allegations more than 100 times in my career at trial. So yes, we are very weary of the accusations and some in law enforcement will even overlook small crimes by minorities just to avoid the extended drama.

If you removed the guns from the U.S. would we still have a high murder rate in the big cities? Would the drug wars continue? Would the gangs continue? What would work better, removing the guns from America, or removing the criminals permanently? My belief is stronger laws, I'm talking real punishment here, like 20 year minimum sentence for first time offenders, would straighten this junk up quickly.

Also, do you realize that admitting that minorities are treated differently than white people is admitting to racial profiling?

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"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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06-10-2015, 03:32 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(06-10-2015 03:11 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 02:51 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Yeah, a failed war on drugs is in part to blame for the drug problem and the addiction problem and the incarceration problem. But the violence associated with it?

As for "weak laws" around drugs, we have some of the strongest among developed nations, so...

And as for fear of being labeled "racists," now I'm just completely lost. Cops in the US clearly haven't cared about that for decades. And it isn't like other countries don't have racial issues too.

I don't understand where you're trying to go with this. The gun violence in our nation isn't because of our gun laws and regulations, it's because of our drugs and drug laws? Does not compute.

I've worked in law enforcement for many many years. Trust me when I say we have to tread carefully in everything we do when it comes to minorities. We are much more careful in our interactions with minorities than with whites. I'm not talking about the idiots that kill unarmed people, I'm talking about your everyday Joe in law enforcement, security, even a rent a cop. Everything always comes back to "you only stopped me because you're a racist." Or they lie and say we said the N word. My first wife was half Indian and half African American. I have two kids with her. Yet I've had to defend myself against racial allegations more than 100 times in my career at trial. So yes, we are very weary of the accusations and some in law enforcement will even overlook small crimes by minorities just to avoid the extended drama.

If you removed the guns from the U.S. would we still have a high murder rate in the big cities? Would the drug wars continue? Would the gangs continue? What would work better, removing the guns from America, or removing the criminals permanently? My belief is stronger laws, I'm talking real punishment here, like 20 year minimum sentence for first time offenders, would straighten this junk up quickly.

Look to be clear I want Yak well armed if he ever goes into battle, although I hope he never has to be sent into battle again. I want you L.D.H. and the other Law enforcement officers that protect the rest of us well armed. I just don't want the 'prepper' that lives down the street from you and me, who is stockpiling weapons as he salivates waiting for the apocalypse to be able to buy what ever flavor of assault weapon he wants out of a trunk of a car at a legal gun show!

I sincerely thank both of you for your service. I know my army of hippies is not the first line of defense. With that said we have a serious GUN problem and we need to address this rationally, together with our votes.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein
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06-10-2015, 03:34 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(06-10-2015 03:32 PM)Ted Tucker Wrote:  we need to address this rationally

Which is made more difficult by your CDC ban on gun research Dodgy I mean... Fuck... it's like the *most* ridiculous thing I've ever heard of, and I've heard of a lot of ridiculous things.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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06-10-2015, 03:40 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(06-10-2015 03:32 PM)Ted Tucker Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 03:11 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I've worked in law enforcement for many many years. Trust me when I say we have to tread carefully in everything we do when it comes to minorities. We are much more careful in our interactions with minorities than with whites. I'm not talking about the idiots that kill unarmed people, I'm talking about your everyday Joe in law enforcement, security, even a rent a cop. Everything always comes back to "you only stopped me because you're a racist." Or they lie and say we said the N word. My first wife was half Indian and half African American. I have two kids with her. Yet I've had to defend myself against racial allegations more than 100 times in my career at trial. So yes, we are very weary of the accusations and some in law enforcement will even overlook small crimes by minorities just to avoid the extended drama.

If you removed the guns from the U.S. would we still have a high murder rate in the big cities? Would the drug wars continue? Would the gangs continue? What would work better, removing the guns from America, or removing the criminals permanently? My belief is stronger laws, I'm talking real punishment here, like 20 year minimum sentence for first time offenders, would straighten this junk up quickly.

Look to be clear I want Yak well armed if he ever goes into battle, although I hope he never has to be sent into battle again. I want you L.D.H. and the other Law enforcement officers that protect the rest of us well armed. I just don't want the 'prepper' that lives down the street from you and me, who is stockpiling weapons as he salivates waiting for the apocalypse to be able to buy what ever flavor of assault weapon he wants out of a trunk of a car at a legal gun show!

I sincerely thank both of you for your service. I know my army of hippies is not the first line of defense. With that said we have a serious GUN problem and we need to address this rationally, together with our votes.

I can agree that background checks are not much of an inconvenience. My issue with them is that this mass shooting problem will not be solved by background checks. This very thread is about a mass shooter in a state that voted to close the background check gun show loophole. The shooters guns were all bought through background checks or given to him by family members.

Background checks will not stop a bad guy from getting a gun if he has no criminal record or hasn't been found mentally defective by a judge.

Background checks MIGHT stop the average Joe that wants to kill his wife and has a restraining order, or the felon that wants to rob a bank. But if they really want a gun, they'll get one anyway.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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06-10-2015, 03:40 PM
[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root ...
(06-10-2015 03:30 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 03:26 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Also, do you realize that admitting that minorities are treated differently than white people is admitting to racial profiling?

[Image: l_f98abbda475348c79f202e32e30c7ca6.gif]

I'm not trying to imply you're racist. What I'm saying is that admitting that we have a system that looks at someone's race and from that determines whether to "tread lightly" or not, is racial profiling.

Why not have a system that treats them...equally? A system that actually treats them equally, means no one has to tread lightly.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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06-10-2015, 03:42 PM
[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root ...
(06-10-2015 03:40 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 03:32 PM)Ted Tucker Wrote:  Look to be clear I want Yak well armed if he ever goes into battle, although I hope he never has to be sent into battle again. I want you L.D.H. and the other Law enforcement officers that protect the rest of us well armed. I just don't want the 'prepper' that lives down the street from you and me, who is stockpiling weapons as he salivates waiting for the apocalypse to be able to buy what ever flavor of assault weapon he wants out of a trunk of a car at a legal gun show!

I sincerely thank both of you for your service. I know my army of hippies is not the first line of defense. With that said we have a serious GUN problem and we need to address this rationally, together with our votes.

I can agree that background checks are not much of an inconvenience. My issue with them is that this mass shooting problem will not be solved by background checks. This very thread is about a mass shooter in a state that voted to close the background check gun show loophole. The shooters guns were all bought through background checks or given to him by family members.

Background checks will not stop a bad guy from getting a gun if he has no criminal record or hasn't been found mentally defective by a judge.

Background checks MIGHT stop the average Joe that wants to kill his wife and has a restraining order, or the felon that wants to rob a bank. But if they really want a gun, they'll get one anyway.

And a speed limit won't stop someone from speeding if they really want to.

This is why people keep throwing out the data to you and those on your side about other countries where these gun laws do actually demonstrate a positive effect on reducing mass shootings and intentional homicides.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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06-10-2015, 03:50 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(06-10-2015 03:42 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 03:40 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I can agree that background checks are not much of an inconvenience. My issue with them is that this mass shooting problem will not be solved by background checks. This very thread is about a mass shooter in a state that voted to close the background check gun show loophole. The shooters guns were all bought through background checks or given to him by family members.

Background checks will not stop a bad guy from getting a gun if he has no criminal record or hasn't been found mentally defective by a judge.

Background checks MIGHT stop the average Joe that wants to kill his wife and has a restraining order, or the felon that wants to rob a bank. But if they really want a gun, they'll get one anyway.

And a speed limit won't stop someone from speeding if they really want to.

This is why people keep throwing out the data to you and those on your side about other countries where these gun laws do actually demonstrate a positive effect on reducing mass shootings and intentional homicides.

Look, I'm all for background checks. I own 13 guns. Two were given to me when relatives passed away, 10 of them were bought at a gun store with background check, and one I bought from a friend in his garage with no background check. It wouldn't have been very inconvenient to meet at a gun store to do the background check before the sale. If that would ease the mind of gun control types then I don't really have a problem with it. But I think the type that do these mass shootings will fall through the cracks. They usually have no criminal record so they'll pass the check, or they steal the guns from relatives like the Sandy Hook shooter.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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06-10-2015, 03:51 PM
[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root ...
(06-10-2015 03:50 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 03:42 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  And a speed limit won't stop someone from speeding if they really want to.

This is why people keep throwing out the data to you and those on your side about other countries where these gun laws do actually demonstrate a positive effect on reducing mass shootings and intentional homicides.

Look, I'm all for background checks. I own 13 guns. Two were given to me when relatives passed away, 10 of them were bought at a gun store with background check, and one I bought from a friend in his garage with no background check. It wouldn't have been very inconvenient to meet at a gun store to do the background check before the sale. If that would ease the mind of gun control types then I don't really have a problem with it. But I think the type that do these mass shootings will fall through the cracks. They usually have no criminal record so they'll pass the check, or they steal the guns from relatives like the Sandy Hook shooter.

Background checks are only one piece of the equation.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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06-10-2015, 03:53 PM (This post was last modified: 06-10-2015 04:06 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(06-10-2015 01:00 PM)Ted Tucker Wrote:  Yes let's take a look at Japan and France as they compare to the U.S. :

Why did they exclude Mexico?

And the winner is .....
Honduras at 64.8/100,000 gun homicides. Well done Honduras, well done.
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#sigh
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06-10-2015, 04:06 PM
[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root ...
(06-10-2015 03:53 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 01:00 PM)Ted Tucker Wrote:  Yes let's take a look at Japan and France as they compare to the U.S. :

Why did they exclude Mexico?

And the winner is .....
Honduras at 64.8/100,000. Well done Honduras, well done.
[Image: guns.jpg]

Remind me to never fucking go to Honduras on holiday.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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