[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
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06-10-2015, 05:17 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(06-10-2015 05:00 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 08:37 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Easy access to a gun makes an attempted suicide more likely to succeed. You can fuck up trying to hang or cut yourself, you can freak out an call 911 after swallowing a bottle of pills; you don't get a second chance when you put the barrel up to your head and pull the trigger. Plus, that's way easier and takes less time; it is a suicide enabler.

Why do you want to interfere with people's god-given right to off themselves? Gasp

It's the only truly inalienable right we have. One should, however, be educated on the pros and cons of various methods.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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06-10-2015, 05:25 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(06-10-2015 04:49 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Yeah I posted this earlier. We do need better laws for gun storage. Not crazy like DC laws where your gun has to be locked up and taken apart. But at least locked up when not under your direct control.

In the Peoples Republic of Maryland if you want to purchase or rent a handgun after October 1, 2013 you need a Handgun Qualification License. This really seems no more an invasion of my privacy or violation of my rights than requiring me to pass a driving test before I'm trusted to drive a potentially lethal 2000 pound projectile. If you can't demonstrate that you know how to properly use and store a handgun why should you be trusted with one anymore than you should be trusted with a car if you can't pass a driving test? Long guns do not apply.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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06-10-2015, 05:55 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(06-10-2015 03:20 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 03:04 PM)Ted Tucker Wrote:  holding gun manufacturers liable

This one I can't see how it would fly. Can make laws restricting advertising I guess. No scare mongering, warnings on guns similar to warnings on cigarettes "Warning: Firing a gun can kill." That sort of thing.

There are already warnings on guns and in the manuals.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-10-2015, 06:03 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
WARNING: THIS IS NOT A CAN OPENER

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

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06-10-2015, 06:03 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(06-10-2015 05:25 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 04:49 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Yeah I posted this earlier. We do need better laws for gun storage. Not crazy like DC laws where your gun has to be locked up and taken apart. But at least locked up when not under your direct control.


In the Peoples Republic of Maryland if you want to purchase or rent a handgun after October 1, 2013 you need a Handgun Qualification License. This really seems no more an invasion of my privacy or violation of my rights than requiring me to pass a driving test before I'm trusted to drive a potentially lethal 2000 pound projectile. If you can't demonstrate that you know how to properly use and store a handgun why should you be trusted with one anymore than you should be trusted with a car if you can't pass a driving test? Long guns do not apply.

I disagree with any kind of permits that grant permission to use a constitutional right. Permits to peaceably assemble (in some jurisdictions you can be arrested for marching, picketing, etc without a permit). Gun permits (concealed carry, open carry).

What if the government started requiring permits to speak your mind? Or a permit to be religious or not religious for that matter? Maybe a background check and permit to prevent unreasonable search and seizure? Or my favorite, only those with a permit get a fair speedy trial.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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06-10-2015, 06:06 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(06-10-2015 05:25 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 04:49 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Yeah I posted this earlier. We do need better laws for gun storage. Not crazy like DC laws where your gun has to be locked up and taken apart. But at least locked up when not under your direct control.

In the Peoples Republic of Maryland if you want to purchase or rent a handgun after October 1, 2013 you need a Handgun Qualification License. This really seems no more an invasion of my privacy or violation of my rights than requiring me to pass a driving test before I'm trusted to drive a potentially lethal 2000 pound projectile. If you can't demonstrate that you know how to properly use and store a handgun why should you be trusted with one anymore than you should be trusted with a car if you can't pass a driving test? Long guns do not apply.

Hmmm, I think long guns need to be included. Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-10-2015, 06:28 PM (This post was last modified: 06-10-2015 07:12 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(06-10-2015 06:03 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I disagree with any kind of permits that grant permission to use a constitutional right. Permits to peaceably assemble (in some jurisdictions you can be arrested for marching, picketing, etc without a permit). Gun permits (concealed carry, open carry).

Okay. I've told this story before but I enjoy telling it. I work in a munitions lab (yes I'm a goodam hippie commie bastard working in a munitions lab. There are many of us.) 30 or so years ago one of our engineers wanted to study the effect of wind on howitzer shells and the impact damage depending on the trajectory. A worthwhile research topic. So he actually found an armory that was willing to loan one to us. Unfortunately he failed to inform our installation that a fucking howitzer was coming and they refused it. His POC information included his home address. It was delivered in front of his house. The local authorities were not amused. His neighbors, on the other hand, are still laughing it about to this day.

My assumption is that you do not believe that the 2nd Amendment extends to howitzers. If not then where do you arbitrarily draw the line? Maryland has decided on handguns. Where do you draw it?

And curiously, Maryland allows open carry of both long guns and handguns. It's the concealed carry that scare the shit outta us. You need a good goddam reason for concealed carry. Like you run numbers for a bookie in Baltimore and you have to regularly carry around large sums of cash.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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06-10-2015, 06:33 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(06-10-2015 06:06 PM)Chas Wrote:  Hmmm, I think long guns need to be included. Consider

The only reason you see a slippery slope is 'cause you're still fucking snowed in.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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06-10-2015, 06:41 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(06-10-2015 06:28 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 06:03 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I disagree with any kind of permits that grant permission to use a constitutional right. Permits to peaceably assemble (in some jurisdictions you can be arrested for marching, picketing, etc without a permit). Gun permits (concealed carry, open carry).

Okay. I've told this story before but I enjoy telling it. I work in a munitions lab (yes I'm a goodam hippie commie bastard working in a munitions lab. There are many of us.) 30 or so years ago one of our engineers wanted to study the effect of wind on howitzer shells and the impact damage depending on the trajectory. So he actually found an armory that was willing to loan it to us. Unfortunately he failed to inform our installation that a fucking howitzer was coming. His POC information included his home address. It was delivered in front of his house. The local authorities were not amused.

My assumption is that you do not believe that the 2nd amendment extends to howitzers. If not then where do you arbitrarily draw the line? Maryland has decided on handguns. Where do you draw it?

And curiously, Maryland allows open carry of both long guns and handguns. It's the concealed carries that scare the shit outta us.

Laugh out load

Now that would be a sight to see.

But to answer your question, I believe common small arms are all the constitution was meant to protect. I don't believe the founders meant for private citizens to keep cannons in their homes. Reading the federalist papers, it is obvious they meant for the people to be able to grab the common arms and join a fight as part of the militia, or as a defense against a tyrannical government. Basically anything that puts them on equal ground with regular infantry troops.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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06-10-2015, 06:53 PM (This post was last modified: 06-10-2015 07:00 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(06-10-2015 06:41 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Now that would be a sight to see.

But to answer your question, I believe common small arms are all the constitution was meant to protect.

So at the time the Bill of Rights was drafted common small arms looked like this.

[Image: pistol.jpg]

(06-10-2015 06:41 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I don't believe the founders meant for private citizens to keep cannons in their homes.

Do you think the 2nd Amendment meant for private citizens to keep small arms like this?

[Image: mac10_1.jpg]

I really am not dicking with you DarkLord. I am ambivalent on this topic because I see both merit and holes in all the arguments.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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