[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
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07-10-2015, 02:31 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(06-10-2015 10:41 PM)Ted Tucker Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 10:20 PM)Chas Wrote:  He did, in fact, get stopped by good guys with guns. Drinking Beverage

Yes to late, but by the guys that should have guns. I'm still trying to picture school teachers with guns.Facepalm

While I agree that teachers ought not have guns too handy, I'd ask you how you would address the emphasized problem. Time is of the essence when a killer is on the loose. How would you solve that, immediately?
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07-10-2015, 02:40 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(07-10-2015 02:31 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 10:41 PM)Ted Tucker Wrote:  Yes to late, but by the guys that should have guns. I'm still trying to picture school teachers with guns.Facepalm

While I agree that teachers ought not have guns too handy, I'd ask you how you would address the emphasized problem. Time is of the essence when a killer is on the loose. How would you solve that, immediately?


Having police close at hand, if not on stationed on campus. If you have to have someone armed on school property, it might as well be someone who (hopefully) possesses the best training.

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07-10-2015, 03:07 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(07-10-2015 02:40 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 02:31 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  While I agree that teachers ought not have guns too handy, I'd ask you how you would address the emphasized problem. Time is of the essence when a killer is on the loose. How would you solve that, immediately?


Having police close at hand, if not on stationed on campus. If you have to have someone armed on school property, it might as well be someone who (hopefully) possesses the best training.


Such is a good deterrent, but compare footsteps to trigger-pulls.
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07-10-2015, 03:14 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(07-10-2015 03:07 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 02:40 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Having police close at hand, if not on stationed on campus. If you have to have someone armed on school property, it might as well be someone who (hopefully) possesses the best training.


Such is a good deterrent, but compare footsteps to trigger-pulls.

I'm not sure what you mean by that, could you elaborate?

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07-10-2015, 04:35 AM (This post was last modified: 07-10-2015 04:44 AM by Lord Dark Helmet.)
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(07-10-2015 03:14 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 03:07 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Such is a good deterrent, but compare footsteps to trigger-pulls.

I'm not sure what you mean by that, could you elaborate?

I believe the point was a police officer can't be in every classroom, and students would still be killed in the time the cop has to receive the call, put his coffee and donuts down and run to the affected area. A teacher trained with a gun could end the scenario much faster. Although, that might make the teacher the first victim, if the shooters know the teachers are armed. That's why earlier in the thread I called for schools to have access points like the airport and only one entrance/exit. We at least have to make it harder for these fucks. Putting up a sign that reads "gun free zone" is not a true deterrent to lunacy. In China these fucks do these rampages with a steak knife instead of a gun.

Knowing that some humans are sick bastards, we have to do better than a "no weapons allowed" sign in the window.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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07-10-2015, 04:49 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(07-10-2015 01:21 AM)morondog Wrote:  Is a weapons race. "They" have guns so *we* must have guns. "They" have better guns so *we* must have better guns. They being either criminals or the military, depending on the doomsday scenario under discussion.

The problem is, we have found the enemy and they are us. If you allow every twit to own a gun then *of necessity* some of them won't be of the high moral character necessary to operate the damn thing safely. And the proposed solution is that those who *are* shall shoot those who are not when they go off the deepend Rolleyes

With regard to school shootings it seems the shooters do a fair amount of planning before going on their rampage. If this is true, and it seems that it is, then it is not unreasonable to expect a school shooter to avoid schools where all the teachers have guns and favor those schools where teachers don't have guns.

Arming teachers may not have an impact on the overall number of school shootings. However it may significantly lower the risk of a shooting happening at a school where the teachers are armed.

I haven't decided if school teachers should be armed. When I went to school, I knew more than a couple teachers who were physically violent toward some of their students. Nothing too major....pulling a kids hair or shoving a kid....minor but abusive non the less. I'd rather not give those particular teachers guns.
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07-10-2015, 04:55 AM (This post was last modified: 07-10-2015 05:40 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(07-10-2015 04:35 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 03:14 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I'm not sure what you mean by that, could you elaborate?

I believe the point was a police officer can't be in every classroom, and students would still be killed in the time the cop has to receive the call, put his coffee and donuts down and run to the affected area. A teacher trained with a gun could end the scenario much faster.


Not a fast enough reaction? Well, fuck then. Let's just post an armed police officer in every room, with his gun out, at the ready, and trained on the entire classroom; so that if someone moves even somewhat threateningly they can be put down in a fraction of a second.

That'll make everyone safer.


(07-10-2015 04:35 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Although, that might make the teacher the first victim, if the shooters know the teachers are armed.


Indeed it would.


(07-10-2015 04:35 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  That's why earlier in the thread I called for schools to have access points like the airport and only one entrance/exit. We at least have to make it harder for these fucks. Putting up a sign that reads "gun free zone" is not a true deterrent to lunacy.


That is not a terrible idea, as it increases security without adding more guns. That I can approve of.


(07-10-2015 04:35 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  In China these fucks do these rampages with a steak knife instead of a gun.


The kicker here, of course, is that far more people survive when the crazy person has just a knife.

EDIT: I'll take 23 injured over any of our almost weekly mass shootings.


(07-10-2015 04:35 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Knowing that some humans are sick bastards, we have to do better than a "no weapons allowed" sign in the window.


We can do better, I just don't think that 'more guns' is the solution to the problem.

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07-10-2015, 08:15 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(07-10-2015 04:49 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I haven't decided if school teachers should be armed. When I went to school, I knew more than a couple teachers who were physically violent toward some of their students. Nothing too major....pulling a kids hair or shoving a kid....minor but abusive non the less. I'd rather not give those particular teachers guns.

Why not hire a security firm and let them do the patrolling, and let the teachers stick to what they're good at. The security guys can have CCTV and bullet proof vests and go as nuts as they like. It's gonna be probably as expensive as arming teachers without nearly as much downside. Plus, again, if I picture myself as a teacher I don't see why I should be expected to handle firearms as part of the job description, that's just ridiculous.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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07-10-2015, 08:17 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
Some of these school solutions aren't bad- but I'm still of a mind to reduce the availability of guns altogether. Make it harder for a potential school shooter to even get access to a gun to begin with.
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07-10-2015, 08:22 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(07-10-2015 08:15 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 04:49 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I haven't decided if school teachers should be armed. When I went to school, I knew more than a couple teachers who were physically violent toward some of their students. Nothing too major....pulling a kids hair or shoving a kid....minor but abusive non the less. I'd rather not give those particular teachers guns.

Why not hire a security firm and let them do the patrolling, and let the teachers stick to what they're good at. The security guys can have CCTV and bullet proof vests and go as nuts as they like. It's gonna be probably as expensive as arming teachers without nearly as much downside. Plus, again, if I picture myself as a teacher I don't see why I should be expected to handle firearms as part of the job description, that's just ridiculous.

I went to Canyon High School near Los Angeles. They had at least 7 security guards on duty every day, although none of them were armed. One of them was my uncle, and he was prior military. Some were retired cops. Give them guns. They are already there patrolling the halls. 7 armed guards is a huge deterrent.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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