[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
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08-10-2015, 02:52 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(07-10-2015 08:22 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I went to Canyon High School near Los Angeles. They had at least 7 security guards on duty every day, although none of them were armed. One of them was my uncle, and he was prior military. Some were retired cops. Give them guns. They are already there patrolling the halls. 7 armed guards is a huge deterrent.

Hmmm....I pegged you as a Bowman alumni.Big Grin
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08-10-2015, 05:32 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(07-10-2015 10:37 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 04:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  Who is going to pay them? Consider

Who is going to pay to arm teachers? All the responses to the problem are going to cost money.

Oh wait, allowing everyone to be armed all the time isn't!!! It's *perfect*. Everyone can bring their own gun. If they get shot *then* then it's their own damn fault.

The good guys with the guns will shoot the bad guy with the guns, there will never be any confusion as to who the good guys with the guns are because *they* will have been to firearms training courses and of course the *bad* guys will pull out their weapons *first*. There will be reduced or zero collateral deaths because the good guys will be such excellent shots.

Laugh out load

It'll be just like a crappy Steven Seagall movie! One good guy with a glock will take out forty bad guys with ak-47s. The bad guys will be ineffective due to the fact that their guns are apparently full of blanks (either that or Steven is really Clark Kent), and Steven of course will take them out with a single shot apiece. This is made easier when using steel bullets and the bad guys always have magnets in their pockets.

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08-10-2015, 05:40 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
Reality is -- if you've got a pistol and you're going up against a professional with an AK-47 or M-4 - you're sorta screwed. Your only chance would be if you either got very lucky or you had a superior knowledge of the area and were able to trick the shooter into a close action ambush where his rifle is no more effective than your pistol.

If you don't have a pistol - you're just seriously fucked.

I'll take sorta screwed over seriously fucked any day....

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08-10-2015, 07:34 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(07-10-2015 09:58 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 09:30 PM)kineo Wrote:  Not really true. About 13% happen in gun free zones (spoiler alert, Limbaugh is wrong).





Edit: Oh yeah, Kyle also talks about the Chicago example in this video. Essentially- Chicago's gun laws and crime rate are a bad example for gun control's effectiveness. People can simple step out of the city, buy a gun, then tote it back to the city. It's a short drive from Chicago to the suburbs, Wisconsin, or even Indiana. If you really want a gun, you'll get one. That's why we need effective federal controls in place. Moreover, the failed drug war has got to end. It only contributes to more gang violence. I'm pretty much with Kyle on this one- legalize, tax, and regulate drugs. The drug war does nothing to stop people from using. It only forces people under ground and to even more unsafe alternatives. Hell, with the taxes, we can fund programs to cut down on usage even more- like with smoking, to make drugs uncool and unappealing. And we could fund better rehab centers. But our current approach sucks.

Laugh out load

Sorry, but no. 92% is correct. The 13% crap is just wrong. To get their 13% number, they counted things like drug/gang violence, shootings that happened as part of domestic violence (like a kid is packing a firearm to protect himself when dad goes nuts, yeah right), and situations where guns are technically not banned, like on the street of L.A. True, L.A. doesn't really "ban" guns, but you can't get a permit to carry, so that would actually be considered a gun free zone BECAUSE NOBODY CAN LEGALLY HAVE A FUCKING GUN IN PUBLIC TO PROTECT THEMSELVES.

The 92% comes from only looking at crimes that meet the definition of "active shooter" by the FBI. These cases are almost always in "gun free zones." Colleges, elementary schools, libraries, movie theaters, churches, places of employment.

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uplo...mberg2.pdf

Just look at this list of mass shootings with active shooter events. Almost all of them took place in gun free zones like military bases, schools, workplaces where firearms are prohibited or places where nobody would be carrying a gun because the state doesn't issue concealed weapon permits.

http://timelines.latimes.com/deadliest-s...-rampages/

Honestly, look at your own link from Every town for gun safety. This is their criteria: "The shooter fired at the Army/Navy recruitment center from the parking lot.
Under Tennessee law, permit holders are allowed to keep guns in their cars in public and private parking lots."

Jesus christ, really? Because they're allowed to keep their guns in the parking lot, in their car, they count the recruiting office as not a gun free zone. Get the fuck out of here. That's just pure dishonesty. Like the victims were going to run out to their car and grab their gun. THEY COULDN'T HAVE THEIR FIREARMS IN THE OFFICE WHERE THEY WERE SHOT. It was a gun free zone. There was a fucking sign on the front door shown on the news "NO GUNS ALLOWED."

Don't bring that weak shit around here.

Okay, well, that was unnecessarily aggressive. Keep a cool head, my friend, otherwise I won't bother with talking to you. I already know you're very passionate about having your guns. And I'm passionate about reducing their prevalence. But I don't care to be worked up by the debate itself.

I can't argue with your sources and logic, here. The everytown classification of the recruiting office is particularly shit. I'll read through the info you linked and comment if I'm inclined to continue the discussion.
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08-10-2015, 07:41 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(08-10-2015 07:34 AM)kineo Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 09:58 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Laugh out load

Sorry, but no. 92% is correct. The 13% crap is just wrong. To get their 13% number, they counted things like drug/gang violence, shootings that happened as part of domestic violence (like a kid is packing a firearm to protect himself when dad goes nuts, yeah right), and situations where guns are technically not banned, like on the street of L.A. True, L.A. doesn't really "ban" guns, but you can't get a permit to carry, so that would actually be considered a gun free zone BECAUSE NOBODY CAN LEGALLY HAVE A FUCKING GUN IN PUBLIC TO PROTECT THEMSELVES.

The 92% comes from only looking at crimes that meet the definition of "active shooter" by the FBI. These cases are almost always in "gun free zones." Colleges, elementary schools, libraries, movie theaters, churches, places of employment.

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uplo...mberg2.pdf

Just look at this list of mass shootings with active shooter events. Almost all of them took place in gun free zones like military bases, schools, workplaces where firearms are prohibited or places where nobody would be carrying a gun because the state doesn't issue concealed weapon permits.

http://timelines.latimes.com/deadliest-s...-rampages/

Honestly, look at your own link from Every town for gun safety. This is their criteria: "The shooter fired at the Army/Navy recruitment center from the parking lot.
Under Tennessee law, permit holders are allowed to keep guns in their cars in public and private parking lots."

Jesus christ, really? Because they're allowed to keep their guns in the parking lot, in their car, they count the recruiting office as not a gun free zone. Get the fuck out of here. That's just pure dishonesty. Like the victims were going to run out to their car and grab their gun. THEY COULDN'T HAVE THEIR FIREARMS IN THE OFFICE WHERE THEY WERE SHOT. It was a gun free zone. There was a fucking sign on the front door shown on the news "NO GUNS ALLOWED."

Don't bring that weak shit around here.

Okay, well, that was unnecessarily aggressive. Keep a cool head, my friend, otherwise I won't bother with talking to you. I already know you're very passionate about having your guns. And I'm passionate about reducing their prevalence. But I don't care to be worked up by the debate itself.

I can't argue with your sources and logic, here. The everytown classification of the recruiting office is particularly shit. I'll read through the info you linked and comment if I'm inclined to continue the discussion.

Sorry, my anger was towards everytown for gun safety. After seeing their blatent lie, and watching that video you posted where he just ignores the facts I was just pissed. You've been a very reasonable poster and I shouldn't have taken such an aggressive tone.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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08-10-2015, 08:23 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(08-10-2015 07:41 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(08-10-2015 07:34 AM)kineo Wrote:  Okay, well, that was unnecessarily aggressive. Keep a cool head, my friend, otherwise I won't bother with talking to you. I already know you're very passionate about having your guns. And I'm passionate about reducing their prevalence. But I don't care to be worked up by the debate itself.

I can't argue with your sources and logic, here. The everytown classification of the recruiting office is particularly shit. I'll read through the info you linked and comment if I'm inclined to continue the discussion.

Sorry, my anger was towards everytown for gun safety. After seeing their blatent lie, and watching that video you posted where he just ignores the facts I was just pissed. You've been a very reasonable poster and I shouldn't have taken such an aggressive tone.

It's ok, I get it lol. I reacted rather emotionally after reading your reply before even having my morning coffee.

In any case, I went on from your source to the politifact article linked in the paper. And from there found everytown to be pretty unreliable as a source.

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/...un-safety/

They've had 3 claims rated, all mostly false. That's a shame. In their statement on school shootings, they include things like suicides, misfires, and other situations that we don't classically think of when we hear the term "school shooting". At least they are open about how they calculate their numbers. But their criteria doesn't appear to be useful.
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08-10-2015, 10:24 AM
[split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
A bad picture of my latest gun.

[Image: 20151007_205333_zps7khk8aae.jpg]

It’s a Savage Mark II FV-SR in .22 LR. I bought it September 30. The day before the Umpqua Community College shooting. I’ve been wanting one for a while and Cabela’s had a big grand opening sale. $200 plus a $75 rebate. I’ve added a Boyd’s Pro Varmint Stock with bottom Metal and trigger guard ($145), Burris XTR Rings ($50) and a Leupold VX-II 3x9-33 Ultralight Scope ($350). So my $125 22 cost me about $670. Just got everything put together last night.

I'll be adding a Silencerco Sparrow 22 suppressor to my NFA trust for it. Including the $200 for the tax stamp that will add about another $600 to the final cost. I haven't done a Class III in a few few years, but the last it took about three months to process the form 4. I understand that these days that process could take up to a year.

Save a life. Adopt a greyhound.

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08-10-2015, 11:13 AM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
Is it just me or does it seem a little distasteful to brag about your new guns in a thread about gun violence and a school shooting?

Why not make a new thread for that?
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08-10-2015, 12:49 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(08-10-2015 11:13 AM)kineo Wrote:  Is it just me or does it seem a little distasteful to brag about your new guns in a thread about gun violence and a school shooting?

Why not make a new thread for that?

I think PP may be making a point. This was a legally bought weapon for not too much money, which can probably do a lot of damage in the wrong hands. PP, were there any procedures you had to follow in acquiring the weapon which would be difficult for a motivated lunatic to get through?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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08-10-2015, 01:45 PM
RE: [split] Another school shooting... inevitable gun debate speculation of root causes
(08-10-2015 12:49 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(08-10-2015 11:13 AM)kineo Wrote:  Is it just me or does it seem a little distasteful to brag about your new guns in a thread about gun violence and a school shooting?

Why not make a new thread for that?

I think PP may be making a point. This was a legally bought weapon for not too much money, which can probably do a lot of damage in the wrong hands. PP, were there any procedures you had to follow in acquiring the weapon which would be difficult for a motivated lunatic to get through?

Pretty much. Keep in mind here that I bought the gun on the first day Cabela's opened here in town. They were busy, and they were still training a rather large staff. They made absolutely sure at least four times that all the information on my 4473 matched my ID, and that I had answered all the questions correctly before they ran the NICS check. They knew who I was, where I lived and had permission from the government to transfer a firearm into my name. The problem with background checks isn't at the FFL level. It is getting the information from the local level into the national database.

If the school psychologist doesn't report the loony to big brother, big brother doesn't know the loony shouldn't have a gun.

Save a life. Adopt a greyhound.

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