[split] Ask a Theist! - Jzyehoshua Q&A
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04-05-2013, 11:03 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(04-05-2013 10:57 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(04-05-2013 10:47 AM)Jzyehoshua Wrote:  God didn't play hide and seek, He sent prophets to the world and the nasty world killed them off and ultimately even killed His own Son. (Mark 12:1-9, Hebrews 11) God sent His servants to tell the world what to do and the world mistreated them, so I think He's got a pretty good excuse for being pissed off, frankly.

And who created this nasty world and those nasty vermin that had the gall to piss his vile, hateful self by killing his spawn?

And yes, if there was a god and he created us, he should have come forward and make himself known. A long time ago. Leaving no shadow of a doubt. And don't feed me some trite crap about searching and seeking. It doesn't explain anything other than make your god an even viler one than he already is (that is, if he existed. Which thankfully, he doesn't.)

Quote:It's my understanding God judges everyone differently by how much they knew about what was right and wrong, and what their choices were.
It's my understanding there will be differences in punishment. How exactly that will work I'm not sure, but I'm confident those who knew less about God will be judged less harshly. Nonetheless, God can lead people to Him who seek righteousness like Abraham even if they are in an ungodly country, so such a hypothetical may not be that applicable anyway.

It is, rather, your lack of understanding. Either way, your opinion only matters to yourself. Doesn't prove anything.

By the same token, I'm confident that once we die, everyone will fare the same. I.e., we'll all be dead and that will be it for everyone, no matter if they're a deluded, self-involved religionist who thinks the whole universe exists solely so that their precious ego will live for ever and ever and ever, or people who are honest and mature enough to accept that they are simply temporary specks of dust, who will one day vanish without a trace to make room for other temporary and incredibly beautiful in their transience specks of dust.

God created the world and it rejected Him. The condemnation is that God sent light into the world and people reject it because they prefer their evil deeds instead. (John 3:19-20)

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

God commanded the world to do what was right and not eat of X tree, they disobeyed and chose to do evil. That's basic Garden of Eden stuff. God tells people what's right and they choose to disobey. God sent His servants to tell them what's right and they chose to kill those servants.

God created the world and Satan somehow gained control of it as the "god of this world." (2 Corinthians 4:4) God did not make the world evil, it chose to become that way on its own.

My website refuting alleged contradictions will be at BereaWiki.com.
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04-05-2013, 11:05 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(04-05-2013 11:03 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(04-05-2013 10:58 AM)Jzyehoshua Wrote:  The Bible specifically says that to whom much is given much will be required:

Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

It seems pretty obvious this principle applies to judgment, this is the Biblical answer. There will be less punishment for those who knew less and more for those who knew more. As Hebrews 2:3 observed, the apostles themselves would never escape God's wrath if neglecting such great salvation given how much evidence and truth God had shown them. Jesus said the people of Ninevah and the Queen of Sheba would actually rise up and condemn the generation He was in because of how much evidence they were rejecting from God. (Luke 11:31-32) There will be a greater condemnation to those who reject greater evidence, and less to those who have seen less evidence. By experiencing more and receiving more, one becomes more accountable before God.

Earth to religionist: the Bible doesn't prove ANYTHING. It's a bunch of often hateful, often meaningless millenia-old words strung together.

My Kalevala says something else. And it's better written.

You can't claim the Bible is wrong because of what it says and then say one can't quote the Bible to show it actually says something else. You can't criticize the Bible because of what it says and then refuse to consider what it says. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

My website refuting alleged contradictions will be at BereaWiki.com.
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04-05-2013, 11:17 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(04-05-2013 11:05 AM)Jzyehoshua Wrote:  You can't claim the Bible is wrong because of what it says and then say one can't quote the Bible to show it actually says something else. You can't criticize the Bible because of what it says and then refuse to consider what it says. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I don't claim that the Bible is wrong about what it says, just like I wouldn't say that ancient Greek myths are wrong. I claim that what the Bible says is wrong in regard to the real world that we all live in. Just as are the ancient Greek myths and all other mythologies that have ever existed of which Xtianity is but only one. True, a particularly vile and obstinate one that has long outstayed its welcome, but its days are finally coming to an end. Thank your non-existent god. Or possibly Allah. Or even Vishnu. Doesn't really matter to me one way or another.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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04-05-2013, 11:20 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(04-05-2013 11:17 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(04-05-2013 11:05 AM)Jzyehoshua Wrote:  You can't claim the Bible is wrong because of what it says and then say one can't quote the Bible to show it actually says something else. You can't criticize the Bible because of what it says and then refuse to consider what it says. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I don't claim that the Bible is wrong about what it says, just like I wouldn't say that ancient Greek myths are wrong. I claim that what the Bible says is wrong in regard to the real world that we all live in. Just as are the ancient Greek myths and all other mythologies that have ever existed of which Xtianity is but only one. True, a particularly vile and obstinate one that has long outstayed its welcome, but its days are finally coming to an end. Thank your non-existent god. Or possibly Allah. Or even Vishnu. Doesn't really matter to me one way or another.

So in other words you just assume the Bible is wrong without hearing it out and giving a fair hearing, you've made up your mind it's wrong and don't want to hear anything from it. Seems kind of closed-minded, but maybe that's just me.

My website refuting alleged contradictions will be at BereaWiki.com.
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04-05-2013, 11:24 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(04-05-2013 11:20 AM)Jzyehoshua Wrote:  
(04-05-2013 11:17 AM)Vera Wrote:  I don't claim that the Bible is wrong about what it says, just like I wouldn't say that ancient Greek myths are wrong. I claim that what the Bible says is wrong in regard to the real world that we all live in. Just as are the ancient Greek myths and all other mythologies that have ever existed of which Xtianity is but only one. True, a particularly vile and obstinate one that has long outstayed its welcome, but its days are finally coming to an end. Thank your non-existent god. Or possibly Allah. Or even Vishnu. Doesn't really matter to me one way or another.

So in other words you just assume the Bible is wrong without hearing it out and giving a fair hearing, you've made up your mind it's wrong and don't want to hear anything from it. Seems kind of closed-minded, but maybe that's just me.

Frankly, I prefer the Quran. And it seems rather close-minded of you that you prefer the Bible over the Quran. Unless you do share my belief that Muhammad is the one true prophet and it's only through him that salvation can be found. In which case I do apologise.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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04-05-2013, 11:30 AM (This post was last modified: 04-05-2013 11:39 AM by Jzyehoshua.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(04-05-2013 11:24 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(04-05-2013 11:20 AM)Jzyehoshua Wrote:  So in other words you just assume the Bible is wrong without hearing it out and giving a fair hearing, you've made up your mind it's wrong and don't want to hear anything from it. Seems kind of closed-minded, but maybe that's just me.

Frankly, I prefer the Quran. And it seems rather close-minded of you that you prefer the Bible over the Quran. Unless you do share my belief that Muhammad is the one true prophet and it's only through him that salvation can be found. In which case I do apologise.

I've read some of the Quran as well, though not as extensively as the Bible, and don't understand that perspective. I mean, lets look at the facts. One guy writes it in a cave with no witnesses, centuries after the New Testament, let alone the Old Testament, and claims he's got the right stories about what happened with Abraham, Moses, etc. Trouble is we've found 100,000 Dead Sea Scroll fragments at Qumran dating 350 B.C. to 65 A.D. showing the Old Testament was reliably preserved at least 6 centuries before Mohammed ever came on the scene. Meaning the Quran, written 6 centuries after the oldest Old Testament manuscripts, is claiming it's got the right account of what happened despite being written considerably later.

Then there's the fact it specifically tells people to kill Jews and Christians and is a book nonstop about war, with none of the pacifistic teachings about loving one's enemy you see in the Bible. At any rate, I don't really understand why one would prefer the Quran over the Bible having read both, although again, my study's been more primarily on the Bible.

My website refuting alleged contradictions will be at BereaWiki.com.
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04-05-2013, 11:37 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
Jzyehoshua, I again ask give me a specific verse that allows me to eat pork or crawfish. Not some nonspecific nonsense that might actually allow me to suck another mans cock.
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04-05-2013, 11:39 AM (This post was last modified: 04-05-2013 11:47 AM by Vera.)
RE: Ask a Theist!
(04-05-2013 11:30 AM)Jzyehoshua Wrote:  One guy writes it in a cave centuries after the New Testament, let alone the Old Testament, and claims he's got the right stories about what happened with Abraham, Moses, etc. Trouble is we've found 100,000 Dead Sea Scroll fragments at Qumran dating 350 B.C. to 65 A.D. showing the Old Testament was reliably preserved at least 7 centuries before Mohammed ever came on the scene. Meaning the Quran, written 7 centuries after the oldest Old Testament manuscripts, is claiming it's got the right account of what happened.

So is age your main criteria for "veracity"? Why are you not a follower of, say, the Sumerian religion, then? After all, it's much older.

Quote:Then there's the fact it specifically tells people to kill Jews and Christians and is a book nonstop about war, with none of the pacifistic teachings about loving one's enemy you see in the Bible. At any rate, I don't really understand why one would prefer the Quran over the Bible having read both, although again, my study's been more primarily on the Bible.

If you're deluded enough to think that the Bible is a "pacifistic" book, I don't see much point in discussing anything with you.

Plus, it's time for my Isha' right about now, so if you'll excuse me...

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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04-05-2013, 11:52 AM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(04-05-2013 11:39 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(04-05-2013 11:30 AM)Jzyehoshua Wrote:  One guy writes it in a cave centuries after the New Testament, let alone the Old Testament, and claims he's got the right stories about what happened with Abraham, Moses, etc. Trouble is we've found 100,000 Dead Sea Scroll fragments at Qumran dating 350 B.C. to 65 A.D. showing the Old Testament was reliably preserved at least 7 centuries before Mohammed ever came on the scene. Meaning the Quran, written 7 centuries after the oldest Old Testament manuscripts, is claiming it's got the right account of what happened.

So is age your main criteria for "veracity"? Why are you not a follower of, say, the Sumerian religion, then? After all, it's much older.

Quote:Then there's the fact it specifically tells people to kill Jews and Christians and is a book nonstop about war, with none of the pacifistic teachings about loving one's enemy you see in the Bible. At any rate, I don't really understand why one would prefer the Quran over the Bible having read both, although again, my study's been more primarily on the Bible.

If you're deluded enough to think that the Bible is a "pacifistic" book, I don't see much point in discussing anything with you.

Plus, it's time for my Isha' right about now, so if you'll excuse me...

Actually, if Genesis is as old as it claims, it should share some commonality with ancient records from Sumeria. Sumeria also had a very similar account of a huge flood, the original creation, and a similar concept of the afterlife in Kigal, what the Bible calls Sheol. Some of the ancient manuscripts for that time period actually verify the Bible on things like the Tower of Babel.

http://earth-history.com/Sumer/Clay-tabl...#MS%202063

At any rate, the religion was obviously not preserved for Sumeria and disappeared from recorded history until recently.

As for the Bible, I think it does clearly say we shouldn't return vengeance to others, although this is because doing so heaps coals of hot fire on an enemy's head for the future judgment. (Romans 12:20) I've addressed the book of judges stuff at my site, and pointed out the nations were being destroyed specifically to stop their practice of child sacrifice - they burned their children alive to Baal and Molech.

My website refuting alleged contradictions will be at BereaWiki.com.
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04-05-2013, 12:10 PM
RE: Ask a Theist!
(04-05-2013 10:23 AM)Jzyehoshua Wrote:  Whether you choose to read it or not is your business.
I choose not to. Boohoo wah etc. I'm sure my life is the poorer for it. Dodgy If you can't summarize your point clearly in a few sentences then you don't know what you're talking about anyway.

Quote:As for God, He would expect those interested in the truth to figure things out and seek the truth, if they want to be lazy in determining what's right and wrong, and what His words are, He's not obligated to correct them. He'll judge them at the end and reward or punish accordingly, people have a responsibility to do what's right and seek it of their own decision.
I suppose not being lazy means reading your divinely inspired drivel.

Quote:I say it's wrong because it is, that doesn't mean I hate them or think myself superior, just that it's wrong and something we should avoid.
Homosexuality is wrong because it's wrong... And I further suppose that since all you will offer is this vague crap that your opinion of homosexuality is indeed nauseating. Odd, since you reject much of the old testament as being Moses's forged bullshit, that you take the most vitriolic and crappy bits as good stuff from the mouth of God.

Quote:Concerning your second point, yes.
I suppose I'll have to go back and see what my second point was then.

You're not a very convincing apologist.
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