[split] Assalamo alaikum
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06-08-2015, 03:06 PM
RE: [split] Assalamo alaikum
(06-08-2015 03:03 PM)π¶∆ Wrote:  
(06-08-2015 02:53 PM)Dom Wrote:  The percentages are NOT solid because only certain personality types are captured.

I would allow some validity to the polls IF it wasn't the case that closeted people are a whole different type of person than people who speak out and allow themselves to be counted.

The poll only captures gutsy people who confront the status quo openly. It says more about that type of person than it says about atheists.
Do you have anything to back your statement? Are closeted atheists against gay marriage? They vote for republicans? They are not pro-choice? What data have you used to conclude they are "a whole different type" of people. I am sorry, but burden of proof works both ways.

She made no claim about the opinion of the uncounted, just a critique of the demographics of the poll.

It is also a narrow sample as it is only the U.S.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-08-2015, 03:09 PM
RE: [split] Assalamo alaikum
(06-08-2015 07:45 AM)π¶∆ Wrote:  
(06-08-2015 07:30 AM)Chas Wrote:  Oh, fuck off. Your preconceptions show your ignorance and bigotry.
So which of my statements do you think is due to "religious brainwashed propaganda"?
1. Atheists vote for Democrats
2. Support homosexuality
3. Support abortion

Instead of insults, it's better to have a discussion. I can back all 3 of my statements. Can you prove otherwise?

I was only saying that atheists don't have any more individuality than the rest, though I'm sure it's pleasant to imagine so, everyone wants to feel special.

1. I vote Republican. I am an atheist. Instapundit.com is a conservative blog run by an atheist law professor.

2. "Support"? Or just not care what consenting adults do? Guilty as charged here I suppose. The religious only think homosexuality is wrong because they are taught it is a sin, and atheists as a rule do not think sin is an actual thing.

3. Christopher Hitchens (Yes, really!) opposed abortion at the point of viability ,including taking full advantage of modern medicine to assist with viability as would be done with premature births. I do too.


Blanket statements are often hard to back up. I haven't read the whole thread, but that's my two cents.
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06-08-2015, 03:12 PM
RE: [split] Assalamo alaikum
(06-08-2015 02:45 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(06-08-2015 01:44 PM)π¶∆ Wrote:  ...
I saw in location thread that you live in a muslim majority country. So i guess you are an ex-Muslim.
I don't know which local scholars you talked to. You probably know as well as me how the science of hadith. I haven't heard about adam not being a real person before. Care to elaborate?
Most of the "errors" that you will propose will most certainly be mistranslations. Arabic words have several meanings, thats why they cannot be translated perfectly. Often the translations are called interpretation.
...

I'm not an ex-muslim but I have created a few.

Adam didn't exist ... it's a DNA thing. That's why they don't teach evolution in the schools here.

Those mistranslations, ah yes ... that's been on my mind for a while ... given that no one speaks the language of the all original scrawlings, I find it incomprehensible that anyone accepts any translation / interpretation as authoritative. I would appreciate an explanation of that when you have time.

(06-08-2015 01:44 PM)π¶∆ Wrote:  ...
Virgin birth mistranslation? I advice you to avoid gimmicky articles which make preposterous claims based on single minor assertions. I can only defend Quran and not the bible.

Quite right, the Quran.

I'm sure you know about the whole saga of how the early christians misinterpreted Isaiah 7:14 when searching for any kind of prophecy to substantiate their messianic claims. So "young woman" ("haalmah") became "virgin" ("bethulah").

OK, so they're human; humans make mistakes.

But gods don't, do they?

Sura 19: 16-21 and sura 3: 45-48 undeniably goes for the "virgin" option.

Oops!

Adam didn't exist its a DNA thing? WHere are you taking this from? lol
Every muslim believes in adam and he did exist.
Original scrawlings? You mean hebrew. It is a very well understood language by linguists who study it.
Bible has been corrupted. Whatever it was translated from is corrupted as well. There are many common things between quran and bible. They are from same God. Quran exists in same form as before, bible was changed and edited. So whatever they translated or mistranslated, was not valid in the first place. Secondly, Mary is mentioned in multiple places as a virgin and not just there, you can't use just this one word at this one place as a lever for a much bigger statement.

LOL@ Oops!
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06-08-2015, 03:14 PM
RE: [split] Assalamo alaikum
(06-08-2015 03:09 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(06-08-2015 07:45 AM)π¶∆ Wrote:  So which of my statements do you think is due to "religious brainwashed propaganda"?
1. Atheists vote for Democrats
2. Support homosexuality
3. Support abortion

Instead of insults, it's better to have a discussion. I can back all 3 of my statements. Can you prove otherwise?

I was only saying that atheists don't have any more individuality than the rest, though I'm sure it's pleasant to imagine so, everyone wants to feel special.

1. I vote Republican. I am an atheist. Instapundit.com is a conservative blog run by an atheist law professor.

2. "Support"? Or just not care what consenting adults do? Guilty as charged here I suppose. The religious only think homosexuality is wrong because they are taught it is a sin, and atheists as a rule do not think sin is an actual thing.

3. Christopher Hitchens (Yes, really!) opposed abortion at the point of viability ,including taking full advantage of modern medicine to assist with viability as would be done with premature births. I do too.


Blanket statements are often hard to back up. I haven't read the whole thread, but that's my two cents.

Didn't read the whole thread? You didn't read anything at all. I already mentioned there are exceptions, but everyone keeps pointing out "oh i know that one guy who does not fit your description"
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06-08-2015, 03:15 PM
RE: [split] Assalamo alaikum
(06-08-2015 03:14 PM)π¶∆ Wrote:  
(06-08-2015 03:09 PM)BryanS Wrote:  1. I vote Republican. I am an atheist. Instapundit.com is a conservative blog run by an atheist law professor.

2. "Support"? Or just not care what consenting adults do? Guilty as charged here I suppose. The religious only think homosexuality is wrong because they are taught it is a sin, and atheists as a rule do not think sin is an actual thing.

3. Christopher Hitchens (Yes, really!) opposed abortion at the point of viability ,including taking full advantage of modern medicine to assist with viability as would be done with premature births. I do too.


Blanket statements are often hard to back up. I haven't read the whole thread, but that's my two cents.

Didn't read the whole thread? You didn't read anything at all. I already mentioned there are exceptions, but everyone keeps pointing out "oh i know that one guy who does not fit your description"

You made blanket assertions about atheists. Own it or shut the fuck up. Drinking Beverage

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06-08-2015, 03:29 PM
RE: [split] Assalamo alaikum
(06-08-2015 03:14 PM)π¶∆ Wrote:  
(06-08-2015 03:09 PM)BryanS Wrote:  1. I vote Republican. I am an atheist. Instapundit.com is a conservative blog run by an atheist law professor.

2. "Support"? Or just not care what consenting adults do? Guilty as charged here I suppose. The religious only think homosexuality is wrong because they are taught it is a sin, and atheists as a rule do not think sin is an actual thing.

3. Christopher Hitchens (Yes, really!) opposed abortion at the point of viability ,including taking full advantage of modern medicine to assist with viability as would be done with premature births. I do too.


Blanket statements are often hard to back up. I haven't read the whole thread, but that's my two cents.

Didn't read the whole thread? You didn't read anything at all. I already mentioned there are exceptions, but everyone keeps pointing out "oh i know that one guy who does not fit your description"


I've caught up now Smile

You have to expect we will pounce on inaccurate statements--it's in our nature on this forum. Just own it, acknowledge the error, and move on. Even if it is a small percentage, 20% or so is not just an exception, it is a sizable minority.
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06-08-2015, 03:40 PM
RE: [split] Assalamo alaikum
Ohhh....and Pi, I have another survey that perhaps you would like to respond to.
How about this one by Pew:
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/wo...report.pdf

Page 55 shows how many people think those who leave the Muslim faith should be murdered is pretty crazy to me, with some countries approaching 80% in favor of killing people who decide Islam is wrong.

By your logic and phrasing, I could say that Muslims support killing people who reject Islam (there are exceptions, of course).

Do you agree with killing people who leave Islam? Or are you an "exception" and think something more fitting like beatings or some other form of abuse less than death is deserving?
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06-08-2015, 03:44 PM
RE: [split] Assalamo alaikum
(06-08-2015 03:29 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(06-08-2015 03:14 PM)π¶∆ Wrote:  Didn't read the whole thread? You didn't read anything at all. I already mentioned there are exceptions, but everyone keeps pointing out "oh i know that one guy who does not fit your description"


I've caught up now Smile

You have to expect we will pounce on inaccurate statements--it's in our nature on this forum. Just own it, acknowledge the error, and move on. Even if it is a small percentage, 20% or so is not just an exception, it is a sizable minority.
Nothing I said was inaccurate, I proved all my claims. Some members had the integrity to admit I was correct yet people keep coming in with the same things.

And let go of that false pride that atheists love logic and reason and hate inaccuracies. That much has been disproven in this thread alone. They are as narrow minded, ignorant , stubborn and misinformed as anyone else.
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06-08-2015, 03:52 PM
RE: [split] Assalamo alaikum
(06-08-2015 03:40 PM)BryanS Wrote:  Ohhh....and Pi, I have another survey that perhaps you would like to respond to.
How about this one by Pew:
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/wo...report.pdf

Page 55 shows how many people think those who leave the Muslim faith should be murdered is pretty crazy to me, with some countries approaching 80% in favor of killing people who decide Islam is wrong.

By your logic and phrasing, I could say that Muslims support killing people who reject Islam (there are exceptions, of course).

Do you agree with killing people who leave Islam? Or are you an "exception" and think something more fitting like beatings or some other form of abuse less than death is deserving?

If you were to say most Muslims support killing apostates (who left Islam), you will be correct.

Apostates should be smart and if they do lose faith, they shouldnt come out in Muslim majority areas, just as many of Muslims don't come out with their honest views on things in non Muslim land.

I am unsure on the issue so I don't know what to tell you. Quran says there is no compulsion in religion.

As for killing non Muslims who are not apostates, a big no. No believer supports bloodshed, and Allah hates it too.
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06-08-2015, 03:52 PM
RE: [split] Assalamo alaikum
(06-08-2015 01:44 PM)π¶∆ Wrote:  Often the translations are called interpretation.

Just correcting facts: Translations are written, interpretations are oral.

I know what you meant, but the use of the words is incorrect.

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