[split] Atheist Grieving - A tad heavy with... (The Christian argument)
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28-01-2012, 03:17 PM
 
[split] Atheist Grieving - A tad heavy with... (The Christian argument)
So a close member of your family commits suicide and you become an atheist as a result, but now you are surprised you have such grief?

If atheism is true, all you have is your grief all by yourself. I mean think about it: If atheism is true, we are all just organisms responding to various stimuli. Your family member's suicide was a reaction to stimuli, your greif is a reaction to stimuli, and any empathy we show you is just our reacting to stimuli. There's no real consciousness and thus no real empathy--it's all just background noise to brain chemical reactions.

I'm sorry to say it, but if atheism is true, there is no resolution to greif and no particular answer to why people do what they do. After all, any stimuli must ultimately rests on chaotic happenstance.

On the other hand, if there is a God who has a purpose for our lives from the very moment He conceived us at the beginning of the universe, then you can rest assured that the death of your family member was the natural end of her life and that she had accomplished what God had intended for her to accomplish. And you can rest your greif in your faith that we all belong to God and that He did not create any of us in vain, and that the moment of our death is as planned as the moment of our birth.

A lot of people die by suicide. It is one of the main ways human beings die. Mental illness is a disease just like any other, and it is often fatal. Try not to hold it against her. I am of the firm belief that successful suicide attempts are no different than a fatal heart attack or a car accident. The order of our lives was in place at the moment of our birth, and all of it is in God's hands.

Good luck, NeonMoment. I truly hope your loss does not cause atheism to take permanent hold in you. I can't see anything good coming out of that.
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28-01-2012, 03:29 PM (This post was last modified: 28-01-2012 05:09 PM by Observer.)
RE: Atheist Grieving - A tad heavy with perhaps some triggers
Hey Chas...
Sorry to bother you and edit your post. I'm selecting yours to prevent me from being accused of editing Egor's

Just to say that this tread is a split of this post where Egor replies to the OP and the tread ignites rather hostile.

I've split it to keep the other tread serene...

Go on now
happy debating

The_Observer


(28-01-2012 03:17 PM)Egor Wrote:  So a close member of your family commits suicide and you become an atheist as a result, but now you are surprised you have such grief?

That's a very crude way of putting it.

Quote:If atheism is true, all you have is your grief all by yourself.

No, it is shared with loved ones.

Quote:I mean think about it: If atheism is true, we are all just organisms responding to various stimuli. Your family member's suicide was a reaction to stimuli, your greif is a reaction to stimuli, and any empathy we show you is just our reacting to stimuli. There's no real consciousness and thus no real empathy--it's all just background noise to brain chemical reactions.

What do you mean 'just' organisms?
Quote:I'm sorry to say it, but if atheism is true, there is no resolution to greif and no particular answer to why people do what they do. After all, any stimuli must ultimately rests on chaotic happenstance.

Just because you can't imagine resolution without your invisible friend, doesn't mean there isn't any.

Quote:On the other hand, if there is a God who has a purpose for our lives from the very moment He conceived us at the beginning of the universe, then you can rest assured that the death of your family member was the natural end of her life and that she had accomplished what God had intended for her to accomplish. And you can rest your greif in your faith that we all belong to God and that He did not create any of us in vain, and that the moment of our death is as planned as the moment of our birth.

If there were a God whose purpose includes suicide due to depression, I should gladly join Satan's minions.

Quote:A lot of people die by suicide. It is one of the main ways human beings die. Mental illness is a disease just like any other, and it is often fatal. Try not to hold it against her. I am of the firm belief that successful suicide attempts are no different than a fatal heart attack or a car accident. The order of our lives was in place at the moment of our birth, and all of it is in God's hands.

Suicide is not a disease - it's a result. Your ignorance is appalling.

Quote:Good luck, NeonMoment. I truly hope your loss does not cause atheism to take permanent hold in you. I can't see anything good coming out of that.

I can see a great deal of good resulting from atheism; none from your lack of empathy.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-01-2012, 04:44 PM
RE: Atheist Grieving - A tad heavy with perhaps some triggers
oh come one Egor, you come back after a break and first thing you do is insult a person that is having a really tough time already? Are you really that cold harded? Not much human left in you I guess...

NeonMoment:
I am really sorry for your loss. I am mostly pretty bad in saying the right words in such a situation but I like to give a sign that I read this and feel for you. Please ignore Egor, he is hateful and nothing else.

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28-01-2012, 04:47 PM
RE: Atheist Grieving - A tad heavy with perhaps some triggers
(28-01-2012 04:44 PM)Leela Wrote:  oh come one Egor, you come back after a break and first thing you do is insult a person that is having a really tough time already? Are you really that cold harded? Not much human left in you I guess...

NeonMoment:
I am really sorry for your loss. I am mostly pretty bad in saying the right words in such a situation but I like to give a sign that I read this and feel for you. Please ignore Egor, he is hateful and nothing else.

Don't you know? Being an asshole is the Christian thing to do!
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28-01-2012, 04:50 PM
RE: Atheist Grieving - A tad heavy with perhaps some triggers
(28-01-2012 03:17 PM)Egor Wrote:  So a close member of your family commits suicide and you become an atheist as a result, but now you are surprised you have such grief?

If atheism is true, all you have is your grief all by yourself. I mean think about it: If atheism is true, we are all just organisms responding to various stimuli. Your family member's suicide was a reaction to stimuli, your greif is a reaction to stimuli, and any empathy we show you is just our reacting to stimuli. There's no real consciousness and thus no real empathy--it's all just background noise to brain chemical reactions.

I'm sorry to say it, but if atheism is true, there is no resolution to greif and no particular answer to why people do what they do. After all, any stimuli must ultimately rests on chaotic happenstance.

On the other hand, if there is a God who has a purpose for our lives from the very moment He conceived us at the beginning of the universe, then you can rest assured that the death of your family member was the natural end of her life and that she had accomplished what God had intended for her to accomplish. And you can rest your greif in your faith that we all belong to God and that He did not create any of us in vain, and that the moment of our death is as planned as the moment of our birth.

A lot of people die by suicide. It is one of the main ways human beings die. Mental illness is a disease just like any other, and it is often fatal. Try not to hold it against her. I am of the firm belief that successful suicide attempts are no different than a fatal heart attack or a car accident. The order of our lives was in place at the moment of our birth, and all of it is in God's hands.

Good luck, NeonMoment. I truly hope your loss does not cause atheism to take permanent hold in you. I can't see anything good coming out of that.

I was an Atheist way before my cousin killed herself, I just still held out the little bit of Deism left in me, and really believed it was better to just respect and understand other points of view.

Your response doesn't invoke any sense of respect in me at all. If your 'god' planned my cousin to kill herself, then he can go to hell and suffer. There is no comfort in being the playthings of a deity that expects you to love him no matter what he takes from you or forces you to do.

I would prefer not to live in a celestial North Korea.

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28-01-2012, 05:13 PM
RE: Atheist Grieving - A tad heavy with perhaps some triggers
(28-01-2012 04:47 PM)Logisch Wrote:  
(28-01-2012 04:44 PM)Leela Wrote:  oh come one Egor, you come back after a break and first thing you do is insult a person that is having a really tough time already? Are you really that cold harded? Not much human left in you I guess...

NeonMoment:
I am really sorry for your loss. I am mostly pretty bad in saying the right words in such a situation but I like to give a sign that I read this and feel for you. Please ignore Egor, he is hateful and nothing else.

Don't you know? Being an asshole is the Christian thing to do!

I guess... Great personality really

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28-01-2012, 05:20 PM
RE: [split] Atheist Grieving - A tad heavy with... (The Christian argument)
First you tell us faith must be good because it's harder, now you tell us it's good because it's easier.

You're either a troll or just a plain idiot.
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28-01-2012, 05:38 PM
RE: [split] Atheist Grieving - A tad heavy with... (The Christian argument)
(28-01-2012 05:20 PM)Ben Wrote:  First you tell us faith must be good because it's harder, now you tell us it's good because it's easier.

You're either a troll or just a plain idiot.

Ooh, ooh, I know the answer! It's a trick question: he's both!Big Grin

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28-01-2012, 05:44 PM
RE: [split] Atheist Grieving - A tad heavy with... (The Christian argument)
This tread...
Flame...
FLAAAAAAAMMMEEE
Burn baby! Burn!

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28-01-2012, 06:02 PM
RE: [split] Atheist Grieving - A tad heavy with... (The Christian argument)
Just... no. That post is an affront to humanity and a blight to Christians, that by and large aren't assholes enough to say that, even if they might be unintelligent enough to think it. To say that atheists can't grieve the loss of a loved one is ridiculous, of coursewe will miss them as we are people and know that we won't ever see them again... Christians at least should be happy since they operate underbthe delusion that there is something else after death.

Better without God, and happier too.
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