[split] Beauty of Mathematics
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24-09-2015, 10:21 PM
RE: Beauty of Mathematics
(24-09-2015 09:52 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Zora, you misunderstand me if you think I believe math provides "little more detail".

How else am I supposed to take the phrase "All math is a language with a little logic on the side. That allows us to describe the world in a little more detail"? That it describes the world in a lot more detail? In no more detail?

Quote:Math is the language of God....but it is none the less a language. It isn't some force or cause in nature.

I'm aware mathematics is an abstraction.

Quote:Math doesn't send people to the moon or cause the tides to come in any more than English does.

You're just being pedantic about the difference between "math" as an abstract concept and "mathematical model." We would not have sent people to the moon without mathematical models; it'd simply be too difficult to take into account all the details without the precision mathematics provides. Which, had you read the OP, he specifically said mathematical models at first so he was the two (i.e. math and mathematical models) interchangeably.

That is, unless you can think you can solve the rocket equation from first principles without using mathematics.

Quote:The OP is amazed there is an equation for everything.

Again, had you read the OP, he said "there exists an equation for damn near everything" when specifically referring phenomena in nature. Which, yes, there's a mathematical model for damn near everything in science.

Quote:Well there is an English sentence for everything too.....but I am sure the OP doesn't find that fact of nature too interesting or amazing. Does that make him intellectually dishonest? If it doesn't why am I intellectually dishonest for not being surprised or amazed that an equation can be written to describe virtually anything?

No, because the English language doesn't have any predictive power per. It's the logical connections made in mathematics that give that study its robustness. The closest non-mathematical analog to mathematics is logic itself. And while logic is useful, it still suffer from an inherent vagueness mathematics does not.

Quote:OP(and others) are butthurt because I don't share their amazement. That is what this thread boils down too.

No. It boils down to the fact that you make a stramwan out of what other people were saying (the OP said that near damn everything in nature has a mathematical model; which you read as math explains everything) and try to act antithetical to what others are saying when what you're really antithetical to is the strawman you created. It's a cycle of misrepresenting the side and us banging our heads against the wall trying to explain what was said that makes you so damn frustrating.
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24-09-2015, 10:29 PM
RE: Beauty of Mathematics
(24-09-2015 10:21 PM)ZoraPrime Wrote:  No. It boils down to the fact that you make a stramwan out of what other people were saying (the OP said that near damn everything in nature has a mathematical model; which you read as math explains everything) and try to act antithetical to what others are saying when what you're really antithetical to is the strawman you created. It's a cycle of misrepresenting the side and us banging our heads against the wall trying to explain what was said that makes you so damn frustrating.

Why is it amazing that everything has a mathematical model? To me this is expected. What I would find amazing is if something was discovered and it was also discovered a mathematical model could not be created to describe it. That would shatter my world view. In the past, I have even claimed that God could be described mathematically.
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24-09-2015, 10:57 PM
RE: Beauty of Mathematics
(24-09-2015 10:21 PM)ZoraPrime Wrote:  That is, unless you can think you can solve the rocket equation from first principles without using mathematics.

Did honey bees use mathematical models to solve the problem of how to build the most efficient honeycombs?
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25-09-2015, 12:26 AM (This post was last modified: 25-09-2015 12:34 AM by ZoraPrime.)
RE: Beauty of Mathematics
(24-09-2015 10:57 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 10:21 PM)ZoraPrime Wrote:  That is, unless you can think you can solve the rocket equation from first principles without using mathematics.

Did honey bees use mathematical models to solve the problem of how to build the most efficient honeycombs?

that isn't solving a rocket equation.

Out of curiosity, how are we aware that it's the most efficient honeycomb lattice in the first place?
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25-09-2015, 04:33 AM
RE: Beauty of Mathematics
(25-09-2015 12:26 AM)ZoraPrime Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 10:57 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Did honey bees use mathematical models to solve the problem of how to build the most efficient honeycombs?

that isn't solving a rocket equation.

Out of curiosity, how are we aware that it's the most efficient honeycomb lattice in the first place?

It was proved mathematically that honey bees use the most efficient lattice. I know it is not the rocket equation problem but you seemed to be saying these types of problems could only be solved with mathematics. The honey bees suggest there is more than one way to skin a cat.
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25-09-2015, 05:03 AM
RE: Beauty of Mathematics
(25-09-2015 04:33 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(25-09-2015 12:26 AM)ZoraPrime Wrote:  that isn't solving a rocket equation.

Out of curiosity, how are we aware that it's the most efficient honeycomb lattice in the first place?

It was proved mathematically that honey bees use the most efficient lattice
Citation needed . . .

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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25-09-2015, 05:05 AM
RE: Beauty of Mathematics
(24-09-2015 10:29 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 10:21 PM)ZoraPrime Wrote:  No. It boils down to the fact that you make a stramwan out of what other people were saying (the OP said that near damn everything in nature has a mathematical model; which you read as math explains everything) and try to act antithetical to what others are saying when what you're really antithetical to is the strawman you created. It's a cycle of misrepresenting the side and us banging our heads against the wall trying to explain what was said that makes you so damn frustrating.
In the past, I have even claimed that God could be described mathematically.

That's because you are a fruitcake

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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25-09-2015, 05:09 AM
RE: Beauty of Mathematics
(25-09-2015 05:03 AM)Octapulse Wrote:  
(25-09-2015 04:33 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  It was proved mathematically that honey bees use the most efficient lattice
Citation needed . . .

Quote:Honey may be sweet, but honeybees' engineering is even sweeter. A mathematician has proved that a comb's hexagonal lattice allows bees to store the most honey for the least amount of beeswax. The proof, presented last month at the TurĂ¡n Workshop in Mathematics, Convex and Discrete Geometry in Budapest, ends centuries of speculation--and confirms the intuition of human engineers, who use honeycombed materials to produce light but strong panels for cars, planes, and spacecraft.

Of course, in typical Heywood fashion, he thinks shooting himself in the foot is a sign of superior marksmanship. Undecided

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25-09-2015, 05:17 AM
RE: Beauty of Mathematics
(25-09-2015 05:05 AM)Octapulse Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 10:29 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  In the past, I have even claimed that God could be described mathematically.

That's because you are a fruitcake

I forgive you for calling me a fruitcake and adding virtually nothing to this discussion.
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25-09-2015, 05:45 AM
RE: Beauty of Mathematics
(25-09-2015 05:17 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(25-09-2015 05:05 AM)Octapulse Wrote:  That's because you are a fruitcake

I forgive you for calling me a fruitcake and adding virtually nothing to this discussion.

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. .

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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