[split] Chippy vs the World
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31-10-2013, 11:47 AM
RE: Help through Deconversion
Actually, Chipster, whether or not vitamins produce the effects through placebo is completely irrelevant. You appear to be misusing the placebo as though it has a negative connotation - it doesn't. The body has an incredible ability to heal itself, if presented with acceptable triggers for immediate healing by first intention.

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31-10-2013, 07:35 PM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(31-10-2013 11:35 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  This is Chippy's M.O. I have an advanced degree in economics and all he has is Wikipedia.

Is your "advanced degree in economics" from a diploma mill? Given that you are an unintelligent person then clearly you don't have to be intelligent to get an "advanced degree in economics" from wherever you got yours from.

Even if you had an "advanced degree in economics" how does that bear on this topic or any topic in the philosophy, history or anthropology of religion?

Using your "advanced degree in economics" and Fulton's MB BS from a shitty Tasmanian university maybe between the two of you you can find me a double-blind placebo-controlled study that demonstrates a significant effect size for supraphysiological doses of any vitamin or mineral in the treatment of MDD or depression.
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31-10-2013, 07:56 PM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(31-10-2013 11:47 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Actually, Chipster, whether or not vitamins produce the effects through placebo is completely irrelevant. You appear to be misusing the placebo as though it has a negative connotation - it doesn't. The body has an incredible ability to heal itself, if presented with acceptable triggers for immediate healing by first intention.

http://www.trianglefreethoughtsociety.or...dy-Thomson

No I am not using placebo as if it has a negative connotation. All medical interventions produce a placebo effect. The point of a double-blind placebo-controlled study design is to identify those interventions that have more than just a placebo effect. The efficacy of an intervention less the placebo effect--as measured by the placebo arm of the study--and the other nonpecific effects that are realised by the the no-treatment is termed the effect size. All approved interventions have a statistically significant effect size.

A drug that has a statistically significant effect size will give all the benefits that the placebo effect can produce in addition to its actual specific pharmacological effects so it will be much more effective than just a placebo.

Also, the placebo effect is not consistent with respect to ailments nor people. There is a large--apparently genetic in origin--variation with respect to individuals experience of the placebo effect. And those conditions that have an acute phase response tend to respond better to the plecebo effect than others. For these reason also plecebo interventions can not be substituted for real treatments.

Lastly, the history of medicine has demonstrated that a system of medicine consisting entirely of placebos is generally ineffective. There was a period in the history of Western medicine--before microbiology and biochemsitry--when most of the interventions were just placebos and that medicine was much less effective than current medicine.
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31-10-2013, 08:23 PM (This post was last modified: 31-10-2013 09:02 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Help through Deconversion
(31-10-2013 07:35 PM)Chippy Wrote:  Using your "advanced degree in economics" and Fulton's MB BS from a shitty Tasmanian university maybe between the two of you you can find me a double-blind placebo-controlled study that demonstrates a significant effect size for supraphysiological doses of any vitamin or mineral in the treatment of MDD or depression.

Jesus Christ, another ignorant offensive prick comes out of the woodwork. You're not only an offensive prick, you're a goddam fucking ignorant asshole idiot to boot.

Here you go. Shove these up your stinky constipated ass.

Omega-3 fatty acid supplementation in adolescents with borderline personality disorder and ultra-high risk criteria for psychosis: a post hoc subgroup analysis of a double-blind, randomized controlled trial.

Omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids for major depressive disorder.


There are many more regarding omega-3's and depression. Normally I'd be happy to play pubmed search&interpret for someone actually interested in it, but I ain't doing it for some fucking asshole. Do your own fucking research, prick.

Anecdotally, high dose fish oil (12-15 g/day) alleviated Girly's decades-long depression symptoms better than Wellbutrin. But what completely eliminated Girly's depression was testosterone replacement therapy.

But take it with a grain of salt 'cause I'm just some GirlyMan who received an "advanced degree in Computer Science" from that diploma mill called the Johns Hopkins University who's spent the last 7 years reading and interpreting many many pubmed studies to deal with my own prediabetes and hypogonadism and depression.

...

Fucking idiot.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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31-10-2013, 08:58 PM (This post was last modified: 31-10-2013 09:05 PM by Chippy.)
RE: Help through Deconversion
(31-10-2013 08:23 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Omega-3 fatty acid supplementation in adolescents with borderline personality disorder and ultra-high risk criteria for psychosis: a post hoc subgroup analysis of a double-blind, randomized controlled trial.

Omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids for major depressive disorder.


There are many more regarding omega-3's and depression. Normally I'd be happy to play pubmed search&interpret for someone actually interested in it, but I ain't doing it for some fucking asshole. Do your own fucking research, prick.

Anecdotally, high dose fish oil (12-15 g/day) alleviated Girly's decades-long depression symptoms better than Wellbutrin. But what completely eliminated Girly's depression was testosterone replacement therapy.

Omega-3 fatty acids are neither vitamins nor minerals (and neither is testosterone).

Re-read what I wrote:

Using your "advanced degree in economics" and Fulton's MB BS from a shitty Tasmanian university maybe between the two of you you can find me a double-blind placebo-controlled study that demonstrates a significant effect size for supraphysiological doses of any vitamin or mineral in the treatment of MDD or depression.

Fucking idiot.
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31-10-2013, 09:12 PM (This post was last modified: 31-10-2013 09:28 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Help through Deconversion
(31-10-2013 08:58 PM)Chippy Wrote:  Omega-3 fatty acids are neither vitamins nor minerals (and neither is testosterone).

Re-read what I wrote:

You missed my point entirely. It was not to split hairs, it was to point out that if you don't act civil neither will I.

(31-10-2013 08:58 PM)Chippy Wrote:  ... Fucking idiot.

Okay. I'm good with just busting each other's balls civility be damned. Might be fun.

Suck my balls bitch.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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31-10-2013, 09:23 PM
RE: Help through Deconversion
This demonstrates perfectly well what I have been railing about. There is an absence of genuine scpeticism and critical thinking here. It is a circumscribed scpeticism that is applied only to theism. Outside of that sandpit there is the usual credulity of the herd.

There is zero evidence that dosing-up those with MDD and anxiety with mega-doses of vitamins and minerals has any effect beyond the nonpsecific. Zero evidence. Further, there is positive evidence that it has no effect beyond the nonspecific.

It doesn't matter one iota that Mark Fulton is a GP, a rocket scientist, a brain surgeon or a rocket surgeon--there is simply no evidence for his claims regarding large doses of ionic zinc and magnesium and vitamins. The plural of anecdote is not data regardles of who is relaying the anecdotes.

I am well aware of all of the evdience for the efficacy of Omega-3 fish oils in relation to MDD, I've read many of the papers. "Mega-vitamin therapy" and "orthomolecular medicine" originated in the 1970s before anyone new that fish oil could help depression. Fulton--the quack-- is promoting these 1970s therapeutic fads and all he has done is tack on fish oil. If he advocated only fish oil I would have said nothing because that is evidence-based.

What Fulton is advocating contradicts the principles of evidence-based medicine and is widely-recognised to be quack medicine. That you and your clown troupe are championing him demonstrates your ignorance, credulity and irrational subservience to apparent authority. Those of you with science degrees (in biological, social or physical sciences) should go back to your universites and hand them back because you obviously haven't learnt to distinguish pseudoscience from science.

Bah, bah, bah go the sheep as they follow their shepherd the good Dr Fulton.
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31-10-2013, 09:30 PM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(31-10-2013 09:23 PM)Chippy Wrote:  This demonstrates perfectly well what I have been railing about. There is an absence of genuine scpeticism and critical thinking here. It is a circumscribed scpeticism that is applied only to theism. Outside of that sandpit there is the usual credulity of the herd.

There is zero evidence that dosing-up those with MDD and anxiety with mega-doses of vitamins and minerals has any effect beyond the nonpsecific. Zero evidence. Further, there is positive evidence that it has no effect beyond the nonspecific.

It doesn't matter one iota that Mark Fulton is a GP, a rocket scientist, a brain surgeon or a rocket surgeon--there is simply no evidence for his claims regarding large doses of ionic zinc and magnesium and vitamins. The plural of anecdote is not data regardles of who is relaying the anecdotes.

I am well aware of all of the evdience for the efficacy of Omega-3 fish oils in relation to MDD, I've read many of the papers. "Mega-vitamin therapy" and "orthomolecular medicine" originated in the 1970s before anyone new that fish oil could help depression. Fulton--the quack-- is promoting these 1970s therapeutic fads and all he has done is tack on fish oil. If he advocated only fish oil I would have said nothing because that is evidence-based.

What Fulton is advocating contradicts the principles of evidence-based medicine and is widely-recognised to be quack medicine. That you and your clown troupe are championing him demonstrates your ignorance, credulity and irrational subservience to apparent authority. Those of you with science degrees (in biological, social or physical sciences) should go back to your universites and hand them back because you obviously haven't learnt to distinguish pseudoscience from science.

Bah, bah, bah go the sheep as they follow their shepherd the good Dr Fulton.

Suck my balls bitch.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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31-10-2013, 09:31 PM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(31-10-2013 09:12 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(31-10-2013 08:58 PM)Chippy Wrote:  Omega-3 fatty acids are neither vitamins nor minerals (and neither is testosterone).

Re-read what I wrote:

You missed my point entirely. It was not to split hairs, it was to point out that if you don't act civil neither will I.

(31-10-2013 08:58 PM)Chippy Wrote:  ... Fucking idiot.

Okay. I'm good with just busting each other's balls civility be damned. Might be fun.

Don't act civil. I don't care. It won't make you right about this. I am 100% correct. That you and the other obsequious automata suspend your critical faculties when someone appeals to their putative authority is your shame and not mine. The irony of this is that there are geologists that have advanced degrees that are YECs. By your and Revenant's logic we should believe them when they claim that the Earth is ~4K old because they are "experts". Fuck evidence, they are geologists and I am not so they must be right.

You guys are a disgrace to critical scepticism.
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31-10-2013, 09:33 PM
RE: Help through Deconversion
(31-10-2013 09:30 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(31-10-2013 09:23 PM)Chippy Wrote:  This demonstrates perfectly well what I have been railing about. There is an absence of genuine scpeticism and critical thinking here. It is a circumscribed scpeticism that is applied only to theism. Outside of that sandpit there is the usual credulity of the herd.

There is zero evidence that dosing-up those with MDD and anxiety with mega-doses of vitamins and minerals has any effect beyond the nonpsecific. Zero evidence. Further, there is positive evidence that it has no effect beyond the nonspecific.

It doesn't matter one iota that Mark Fulton is a GP, a rocket scientist, a brain surgeon or a rocket surgeon--there is simply no evidence for his claims regarding large doses of ionic zinc and magnesium and vitamins. The plural of anecdote is not data regardles of who is relaying the anecdotes.

I am well aware of all of the evdience for the efficacy of Omega-3 fish oils in relation to MDD, I've read many of the papers. "Mega-vitamin therapy" and "orthomolecular medicine" originated in the 1970s before anyone new that fish oil could help depression. Fulton--the quack-- is promoting these 1970s therapeutic fads and all he has done is tack on fish oil. If he advocated only fish oil I would have said nothing because that is evidence-based.

What Fulton is advocating contradicts the principles of evidence-based medicine and is widely-recognised to be quack medicine. That you and your clown troupe are championing him demonstrates your ignorance, credulity and irrational subservience to apparent authority. Those of you with science degrees (in biological, social or physical sciences) should go back to your universites and hand them back because you obviously haven't learnt to distinguish pseudoscience from science.

Bah, bah, bah go the sheep as they follow their shepherd the good Dr Fulton.

Suck my balls bitch.

Oh but chippy did a whole google search and read a wiki clearly he is better informed than a practicing MD and that research team.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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