[split] Chippy vs the World
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02-11-2013, 11:45 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2013 11:55 PM by Chippy.)
RE: [split] Chippy vs the World
(02-11-2013 11:11 PM)Stevil Wrote:  You either need to man up or back down.

So what you are proposing here is that the RDA/RDI is garbage merely because some general practitioner that graduated from probably Australia's worst medical school says so.

The RDA/RDI has not been repudiated by any medical authority in the Anglophone world, it still stands. There may be statistical outliers such that some people need more or less than the RDA/RDI but on the population level it is a valid measure of how much of each what nutrient humans need. The onus is on anyone that is advocating doses that are an order of magnitude higher than the RDA on a consistent basis to provide the evidence that this such a practice is efficacious and safe. Fulton has provided neither. Not only has Fulton provided neither but there is positive evidence that continued overdsoing of certain nutrients may be harmful.
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02-11-2013, 11:46 PM
RE: [split] Chippy vs the World
(02-11-2013 11:41 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I'm looking for double-blind placebo controlled trials to validate my existence. ... Come on .... anyone? ... you worthless useless pieces of shit.

I can write you one but you need to send me US$100 to prove that you exist.
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02-11-2013, 11:47 PM
RE: [split] Chippy vs the World
(02-11-2013 11:41 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I'm looking for double-blind placebo controlled trials to validate my existence. ... Come on .... anyone? ... you worthless useless pieces of shit.

Psst, GirlyMan. The cheap seats have gone quiet.
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02-11-2013, 11:50 PM
RE: [split] Chippy vs the World
So with my research maybe I can spare 2$ to the pledge. If chipster moves away, he should be able to afford getting a hooker for two weeks on 102$.

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02-11-2013, 11:53 PM
RE: [split] Chippy vs the World
(02-11-2013 06:59 PM)Chippy Wrote:  
(02-11-2013 06:36 PM)Anjele Wrote:  The RDA is adequate for someone that doesn't have a deficiency in one area or another.

Even if you have a deficiency if you consume the RDA the deficiency will be corrected.

Wrong wrong wrong chipster.

So blatantly wrong, in fact, I'll leave it to you to correct yourself. Think about it.
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03-11-2013, 12:03 AM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2013 12:10 AM by Chippy.)
RE: [split] Chippy vs the World
(02-11-2013 11:53 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(02-11-2013 06:59 PM)Chippy Wrote:  Even if you have a deficiency if you consume the RDA the deficiency will be corrected.

Wrong wrong wrong chipster.

So blatantly wrong, in fact, I'll leave it to you to correct yourself. Think about it.

Ok, I'll grant you that. But once the deficiency is corrected the RDA is sufficient.

This doesn't change anything. There is no good evidence for any of your claims and there is some evidence that overdosing people on vitamins and minerals over the longterm will actually send them prematurely to their graves.

Given the absence of demonstrable benefit and the likelihood of harm your advice is irresposnsible. None of what you advocated is consistent with EBM. None of it. If someone is nutritionally deficient then correct it with supplementation and dietary change and once it is resolved advise them to maintain their improved diet. If you must give, them a multivitamin/mineral tablet. But this idea that you can treat serious mental illness by overdosing people on zinc, magnesium and B-vitamins is quackery.

Regarding my knowledge of "alternative medicine", I know much more than you think. There some valuable herbal (in the Western and Eastern Pharmacopoeia) and "nutraceutical" remedies but most of it is junk.
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03-11-2013, 12:12 AM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2013 12:17 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: [split] Chippy vs the World
As I recall, only the fat soluble vitamins can cause adverse side effects, and the water soluble ones, are just excreted, when their concentration is above what is needed.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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03-11-2013, 12:17 AM
RE: [split] Chippy vs the World
(03-11-2013 12:12 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  As I recall, only the fat soluble vitamins can cause adverse side effects, and the water soluble ones, are just excreted.

*Brain hits wall* Big Grin Yay!

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03-11-2013, 12:22 AM
RE: [split] Chippy vs the World
(03-11-2013 12:03 AM)Chippy Wrote:  
(02-11-2013 11:53 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Wrong wrong wrong chipster.

So blatantly wrong, in fact, I'll leave it to you to correct yourself. Think about it.

Ok, I'll grant you that. But once the deficiency is corrected the RDA is sufficient.

This doesn't change anything. There is no good evidence for any of your claims and there is some evidence that overdosing people on vitamins and minerals over the longterm will actually send them prematurely to their graves.

Given the absence of demonstrable benefit and the likelihood of harm your advice is irresposnsible. None of what you advocated is consistent with EBM. None of it. If someone is nutritionally deficient then correct it with supplementation and dietary change and once it is resolved advise them to maintain their improved diet. If you must give, them a multivitamin/mineral tablet. But this idea that you can treat serious mental illness by overdosing people on zinc, magnesium and B-vitamins is quackery.

Regarding my knowledge of "alternative medicine", I know much more than you think. There some valuable herbal (in the Western and Eastern Pharmacopoeia) and "nutraceutical" remedies but most of it is junk.

How do you treat pyroluria (http://www.emed.com.au/3406) in your clinic chipster?
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03-11-2013, 12:25 AM
RE: [split] Chippy vs the World
(03-11-2013 12:12 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  As I recall, only the fat soluble vitamins can cause adverse side affects, and the water soluble ones, are just excreted.

It is true that the fat soluble vitamins are generally more toxic because of their accumulation but the water solubles are not without harm. Note that the Cochrane reviews that I cited were not concerned with supraphysiological doses of the antioxidants (A,C, E, zinc and selenium) but just the dosing you would get from following the directions on the labelling. So they would be above RDA but below those of "mega-vitamin therapy" and "orthomolecular medicine" and they find increased mortality relative to the population mean. Of course this doesn't establish causality but it is an undesirable result (and it has been replicated). The data suggest that we should be cautious if it is our intention to live longer.
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