[split] Chippy vs the World
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03-11-2013, 12:37 AM
RE: [split] Chippy vs the World
(03-11-2013 12:12 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  As I recall, only the fat soluble vitamins can cause adverse side effects, and the water soluble ones, are just excreted, when their concentration is above what is needed.

Spot-on Bucky.

Whenever we take high doses of water soluble vitamins nearly all of them pass out in the urine. This is why urine turns dark yellow or green after taking multivitamins.

So why take them? Because we're trying to correct "intra cellular" deficiencies, in other words, we're deficient inside our cells, (not in the bloodstream.) Our cell walls, made up mainly of lipids, have been hardened by the consumption of hydrogenated fats over the years. This makes them less permeable to nutrients. Hence the benefit of putting high doses of nutrients into the bloodstream; tt means that through osmosis the water soluble vitamins get through the hardened cell walls and into our cells. This is why people so often get a boost when they take high doses of vitamins... They feel better because their intra cellular deficiencies are corrected.

Incidentally, this is one of the main reasons why it's important to have high doses of Omega threes in our diet; they replace the hydrogenated facts or trans fatty acids in our cell walls yet.

The recommended daily allowances of so many things are therefore insufficient for optimal health because of the damage we've done to our cell walls.
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03-11-2013, 12:40 AM
RE: [split] Chippy vs the World
(03-11-2013 12:22 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  How do you treat pyroluria (http://www.emed.com.au/3406) in your clinic chipster?

I don't. Pyroluria in and of itself has no clinical significance. No reliable association has been established between pyroluria and any disease.
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03-11-2013, 12:50 AM
RE: [split] Chippy vs the World
Never had a vitamin supplement, omega beta theta fish juice in my life.
Just eat foodage then shit n piss.
Seems to work out allright for me

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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03-11-2013, 12:50 AM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2013 01:26 AM by Chippy.)
RE: [split] Chippy vs the World
(03-11-2013 12:37 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  So why take them? Because we're trying to correct "intra cellular" deficiencies, in other words, we're deficient inside our cells, (not in the bloodstream.) Our cell walls, made up mainly of lipids, have been hardened by the consumption of hydrogenated fats over the years. This makes them less permeable to nutrients. Hence the benefit of putting high doses of nutrients into the bloodstream; tt means that through osmosis the water soluble vitamins get through the hardened cell walls and into our cells. This is why people so often get a boost when they take high doses of vitamins... They feel better because their intra cellular deficiencies are corrected.

There is absoluely no evidence that there are such things as "intra cellular" deficiencies that aren't evinced by serum concentrations of nutrients. This is just an auxiliary ad hoc hypothesis that proponents of "orthomollecular medicine" contrived to shield their main hypothesis from falsification. In response to the claims of practitioners of "orthomollecular medicine", data was produced which demonstrated an absence of claimed nutrient deficiencies. So in response to the falsification of the hypothesis that all major diseases are due to nutritional deficiences, the notion of nutrient deficiency was redefined such that it became--for all practical purposes--unfalsifiable. This is standard pseudoscienific practice.

Quote:The recommended daily allowances of so many things are therefore insufficient for optimal health because of the damage we've done to our cell walls.

Again, there is no evidence for this claim.
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03-11-2013, 12:52 AM
RE: [split] Chippy vs the World
This thread was amusing at first, but now it is just tiring.
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03-11-2013, 12:52 AM
RE: [split] Chippy vs the World
(03-11-2013 12:50 AM)sporehux Wrote:  Never had a vitamin supplement, omega beta theta fish juice in my life.
Just eat foodage then shit n piss.
Seems to work out allright for me

Good for you. That is how your ancestors did it too. Unless you have some special metabolic need (e.g. you have chronic alcoholism) there is no need for supplementation. A good diet will give you everything that you need.
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03-11-2013, 12:58 AM
RE: [split] Chippy vs the World
(03-11-2013 12:40 AM)Chippy Wrote:  
(03-11-2013 12:22 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  How do you treat pyroluria (http://www.emed.com.au/3406) in your clinic chipster?

I don't. Pyroluria in and of itself has no clinical significance. No reliable association has been established between pyroluria and any disease.

My clinical experience strongly suggest otherwise and I'm not alone. Please read
http://ndnr.com/anxietydepressionmental-...f-anxiety/

You, however, have no clinical experience, do you?

Just say you were a doctor, how would you treat, say, pernicious anaemia? With the recommended daily allowance of B12? How would you treat menorrhagia? Two pieces of steak a week? Iodine deficiency in the first trimester of pregnancy? An extra sprinkle of salt? How would you explain the mentally retarded child to mother? Or to your medical defence union?
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03-11-2013, 01:00 AM
RE: [split] Chippy vs the World
I've had enough for today and I think I have more than adequately fulfilled whatever evidentiary burden I carried. If anyone wants more studies then just ask.

I re-iterate , there is zero evidence for Fulton's claims about the benefits of consistent overdosing. If such evidence existed he would have presented it. I know that no such evidence exists.

Those of you that consider yourselves to be critical thinkers and skpetics that have blindly imbibed Fulton's conjectures don't deserve that appellation. You are a bunch of sheep looking for a shepherd.
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03-11-2013, 01:17 AM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2013 01:22 AM by Chippy.)
RE: [split] Chippy vs the World
(03-11-2013 12:58 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  My clinical experience strongly suggest otherwise and I'm not alone. Please read
http://ndnr.com/anxietydepressionmental-...f-anxiety/

Then you should be able to give me more evidence than a naturopath's blog article.

Quote:You, however, have no clinical experience, do you?

That line of argument leads nowhere. If I have clinical experience then you can say you have more or that I don't have enough. Your evidence and my own should stand on its own merits, it shouldn't need polishing and trinkets.

Quote:Just say you were a doctor, how would you treat, say, pernicious anaemia? With the recommended daily allowance of B12? How would you treat menorrhagia? Two pieces of steak a week? Iodine deficiency in the first trimester of pregnancy? An extra sprinkle of salt? How would you explain the mentally retarded child to mother? Or to your medical defence union?

If testing shows that a patient has a deficiency then by all means give them in excess of the RDA until the deficiency is corrected and then reduce their dosing to the RDA or remove the supplement altogether and counsel dietary change. Corrcting nutritional deficiencies isn't what is in question here. Rather it is your pseudoscientific claims regarding "intra cellular deificiencies", advocacy of consistent and long-term supraphysiological doses of vitamins and minerals in the absence of observed deficiency and your pathologisation of pyroluria in the absence of any evidence.

I have presented evidence for my position, and my position is consistent with EBM. That you have managed to convince some misguided people that know nothing about the matter is irrelevant. Even if you had 1000 morons cheering you on it would not help your position because your claims are completely devoid of evidence and your advocacy is inconsistent with what is considered best practice in primary care in Australia.
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03-11-2013, 01:22 AM
RE: [split] Chippy vs the World
(03-11-2013 12:52 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  This thread was amusing at first, but now it is just tiring.

Heywoodya look? Sidekick shows up to blowchippy! Not a word otherwise. Thumbsup

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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