[split] Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
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23-03-2014, 02:45 AM
RE: [split] Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(23-03-2014 02:05 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Most of you appear to be confident in your views.

Anyone want to debate me on the Kalam?

http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.co...emise.html

Fuck, debunking this shit is an internet sport at this point...

Drinking Beverage

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23-03-2014, 05:37 AM
RE: [split] Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(23-03-2014 02:05 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Most of you appear to be confident in your views.

Anyone want to debate me on the Kalam?

Not gonna waste my time.
Just go ahead and actually address the criticisms ALREADY made here about it.

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23-03-2014, 07:35 AM
RE: [split] Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(23-03-2014 02:18 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(23-03-2014 02:05 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Most of you appear to be confident in your views.

Anyone want to debate me on the Kalam?

Here's my statement of the argument:
1. The universe exists.
2. The universe had a beginning.
3. Therefore the universe was created in some way.
4. Therefore the universe was created by a creator i.e. an intelligent entity, the magical flying spaghetti monster.

Do you broadly agree with this statement of the argument or would you modify it in some way?

The Kalam Cosmological argument is a two premise philosophical syllogism. It reads thus:

1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause for its existence.

2. The universe began to exist.

3. Therefore the universe has a cause for its existence.
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23-03-2014, 07:48 AM
RE: [split] Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(23-03-2014 07:35 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(23-03-2014 02:18 AM)morondog Wrote:  Here's my statement of the argument:
1. The universe exists.
2. The universe had a beginning.
3. Therefore the universe was created in some way.
4. Therefore the universe was created by a creator i.e. an intelligent entity, the magical flying spaghetti monster.

Do you broadly agree with this statement of the argument or would you modify it in some way?

The Kalam Cosmological argument is a two premise philosophical syllogism. It reads thus:

1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause for its existence.

2. The universe began to exist.

3. Therefore the universe has a cause for its existence.

Too bad both premises are false... Drinking Beverage

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23-03-2014, 07:56 AM
RE: [split] Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(23-03-2014 07:48 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(23-03-2014 07:35 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  The Kalam Cosmological argument is a two premise philosophical syllogism. It reads thus:

1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause for its existence.

2. The universe began to exist.

3. Therefore the universe has a cause for its existence.

Too bad both premises are false... Drinking Beverage

Yet another truth claim. But do not worry, I am not intent on defending the argument at this point. I just stated it for the person I posted it to.
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23-03-2014, 08:00 AM
RE: [split] Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(23-03-2014 07:56 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(23-03-2014 07:48 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Too bad both premises are false... Drinking Beverage

Yet another truth claim. But do not worry, I am not intent on defending the argument at this point. I just stated it for the person I posted it to.

Now I wonder if you've got some sort of demented Pavlov's Dog shit going on here, where everytime you type the phrase 'truth claim' you get a doggie treat or biscuit or something... Consider

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23-03-2014, 08:43 AM
RE: [split] Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(23-03-2014 08:00 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(23-03-2014 07:56 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Yet another truth claim. But do not worry, I am not intent on defending the argument at this point. I just stated it for the person I posted it to.

Now I wonder if you've got some sort of demented Pavlov's Dog shit going on here, where everytime you type the phrase 'truth claim' you get a doggie treat or biscuit or something... Consider

Nah, not at all. I just think both Christians and Atheists need to understand that whenever they make a statement that they want others to take as true, then they need to be able to support it with good argumentation, reason, evidence, and clarity.
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23-03-2014, 08:44 AM
RE: [split] Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(23-03-2014 08:43 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(23-03-2014 08:00 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Now I wonder if you've got some sort of demented Pavlov's Dog shit going on here, where everytime you type the phrase 'truth claim' you get a doggie treat or biscuit or something... Consider

Nah, not at all. I just think both Christians and Atheists (and anyone else for that matter) need to understand that whenever they make a statement that they want others to take as true, then they need to be able to support it with good argumentation, reason, evidence, and clarity.
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23-03-2014, 08:56 AM
RE: [split] Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(23-03-2014 08:43 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(23-03-2014 08:00 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Now I wonder if you've got some sort of demented Pavlov's Dog shit going on here, where everytime you type the phrase 'truth claim' you get a doggie treat or biscuit or something... Consider

Nah, not at all. I just think both Christians and Atheists need to understand that whenever they make a statement that they want others to take as true, then they need to be able to support it with good argumentation, reason, evidence, and clarity.

Yabut, an atheist says, "Nah, I don't believe you. Because you lack good argumentation, reason, evidence, and clarity."

That is the true statement. You can try to turn that around on us all you want, but at the end of the day it's still true, and that's all you're doing.

Theism is a claim. Atheism is a rejection of that claim, not a claim in and of itself. You're going to need a while to think about that, turn it over in your head a few times. It's a legitimate position whether you want it to be or not. If you have an intellectually honest brain in your body, you will be able to see this. I promise you. If you think about it long enough and still don't get it, then you are hopeless and you need to get off my lawn.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

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23-03-2014, 09:17 AM
RE: [split] Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(23-03-2014 08:56 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  Yabut, an atheist says, "Nah, I don't believe you. Because you lack good argumentation, reason, evidence, and clarity."

That is the true statement. You can try to turn that around on us all you want, but at the end of the day it's still true, and that's all you're doing.

If you desire for me to take that as true, you would have to give me evidence for it if I demanded it. If you were unable to or refused to, then that would be on you.

Just because an atheist says something does not mean I have to take it as "gospel" or "fact".

Most atheists require evidence for truth claims made about God. Like the atheist who demands evidence, I demand evidence from atheists whenever they make truth claims.

(23-03-2014 08:56 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  Theism is a claim.

Correct.

(23-03-2014 08:56 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  Atheism is a rejection of that claim, not a claim in and of itself. You're going to need a while to think about that, turn it over in your head a few times. It's a legitimate position whether you want it to be or not. If you have an intellectually honest brain in your body, you will be able to see this. I promise you. If you think about it long enough and still don't get it, then you are hopeless and you need to get off my lawn.

Atheists still make truth claims though. When they do, they need to be ready to back it up. This is a website called "The Thinking Atheist". Strange that many here do not understand what a truth claim is and why it needs to be evidenced.
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