[split] Congratulations.
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15-07-2014, 06:19 PM
RE: Congratulations.
(15-07-2014 05:59 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  
(15-07-2014 05:57 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  A difficult question.
I still find male parenting worrisome.
Not necessarily bad.
To me heterosexuality involves a natural accord.
This can be seen in terms of nature.
Ideally I would opt for the order our livelihood has emerged from.
This is not to say gay people are bad or inferior.
Nor is it to condemn gay parenting per se.


I think this issue needs to be viewed differently.
Would 4 partner bi-sexuality parenting be a good thing too?


As for males, I think surrogacy can cause later problems.
Adoption from third world countries seems preferable.
My gut feeling is negative re male parenting.
Ths can be a guide of sorts IMAO.
I don't see this synonymous with bigotry.

In viewing evolution as something we can do as we like with, in many areas, may invite further problems. Gay parenting may make for a better world. I just don't know. It may also add to life's complications. When we condone something with great enthusiasm, we may do so for some wrong reasons as well as better reasons.
When people use the bigot word they sometimes fail to see that a groundswell of emotion is not the same as looking hard at issues and their possible repercussions.
This was essentially the position I took in my original post.

I prefer to sit on the fence than belligerently support something that involves many rights, including the right to have one's partner of any sex as a legal one.
In our brave new world the latter seems very real, as does universal change, along with the right of anyone to raise difficult issues that may reflect on any new sexual socialization.

Sometimes in glorifying all the aspects of change too strongly we become the latter day bigots, more so than those we choose to condemn in our one sentence condemnations.

So would a single dad raising his kids make you "worrisome"

That depends on the possible variables.
I am not arguing from the particular to the general............
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15-07-2014, 06:21 PM
RE: Congratulations.
(15-07-2014 06:14 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(15-07-2014 06:06 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  So your view is based on ignorance then. This is a settled issue. Same sex parents have demonstrably the same affect as 2 opposite sex parents. A stable home is far more beneficial than having one of each sex.

You forgot all the links!Sad

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/06/05...ing-study/

http://www.bu.edu/today/2013/gay-parents...ight-ones/

http://journalistsresource.org/studies/s...h-roundup#

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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15-07-2014, 06:23 PM
RE: Congratulations.
(15-07-2014 06:06 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(15-07-2014 05:57 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  A difficult question.
I still find male parenting worrisome.
Not necessarily bad.
To me heterosexuality involves a natural accord.
This can be seen in terms of nature.
Ideally I would opt for the order our livelihood has emerged from.
This is not to say gay people are bad or inferior.
Nor is it to condemn gay parenting per se.


I think this issue needs to be viewed differently.
Would 4 partner bi-sexuality parenting be a good thing too?


As for males, I think surrogacy can cause later problems.
Adoption from third world countries seems preferable.
My gut feeling is negative re male parenting.
Ths can be a guide of sorts IMAO.
I don't see this synonymous with bigotry.

In viewing evolution as something we can do as we like with, in many areas, may invite further problems. Gay parenting may make for a better world. I just don't know. It may also add to life's complications. When we condone something with great enthusiasm, we may do so for some wrong reasons as well as better reasons.
When people use the bigot word they sometimes fail to see that a groundswell of emotion is not the same as looking hard at issues and their possible repercussions.
This was essentially the position I took in my original post.

I prefer to sit on the fence than belligerently support something that involves many rights, including the right to have one's partner of any sex as a legal one.
In our brave new world the latter seems very real, as does universal change, along with the right of anyone to raise difficult issues that may reflect on any new sexual socialization.

Sometimes in glorifying all the aspects of change too strongly we become the latter day bigots, more so than those we choose to condemn in our one sentence condemnations.

So your view is based on ignorance then. This is a settled issue. Same sex parents have demonstrably the same affect as 2 opposite sex parents. A stable home is far more beneficial than having one of each sex.

Any stable, loving and encouraging environment is better than any unstable, hateful and discouraging environment. I think we all agree on that.

There are a lot of really, really bad parents out there. They come in every size, nationality, economic circumstance and gender. The same goes for good parents.

It used to be held true that men are too clumsy and don't have enough empathy to be care givers, and they were raised to be so, so that roles would be "properly" divided between the male and female parent.

That is not done so much anymore. Boys are allowed to have feelings and that changes everything. But if you were raised not to have them, it's hard to see how you could.

The gender division is not what it used to be anymore, Mr. Woofs. Turns out it wasn't innate at all, but only learned.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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15-07-2014, 06:23 PM
RE: Congratulations.
(15-07-2014 06:19 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(15-07-2014 05:59 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  So would a single dad raising his kids make you "worrisome"

That depends on the possible variables.
I am not arguing from the particular to the general............

There arent a lot of variables at all. You said it wasnt that they were gay that was the problem, its that they were male. I just wanted to know if you felt the same way about a single dad.
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15-07-2014, 06:31 PM (This post was last modified: 15-07-2014 11:47 PM by Mr Woof.)
RE: Congratulations.
(14-07-2014 09:15 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  WOW!

I am so surprised this topic became a Muffs vs Woofs topic. Shocking!

Well wer'e both 'superstars! "


............Girly too!Yes
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15-07-2014, 06:31 PM
RE: Congratulations.
This forum is made up of people from all over the world, all ages, all backgrounds, all cultures.

Not everyone is going to agree with everyone.

This BS between Woof and Muffs is one of the most tiring themes on this board.

Fine, Muffs and others don't like something that Woof said. I would guess most everyone on here has said something that someone doesn't like.

I see this as bullying, plain and simple. The relentless changing of Woof's rep from one vitriolic comment to another is childish and does nothing to try to change anyone's views. Now a lynch mob has ridden in to try to champion the gay parenting stance. WTF does that have to do with Woof being here for three years? Woof doesn't owe anyone an apology and lawd knows he has explained enough. He is entitled to his opinion.

Were he not Muff's personal punching bag his announcement of his TTA anniversary would have been met with congrats and happy posts. Instead it has devolved into trash.

The derail of this thread is mean-spirited and senseless.

To think that I thought better of some of the members here means that I need to examine how I gauge people in the future.

And let's not forget that in Woof's absence, Dom is the target of choice. Muff's seems to need a whipping boy.

I am disappointed.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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15-07-2014, 06:44 PM
RE: Congratulations.
(15-07-2014 06:06 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(15-07-2014 05:57 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  A difficult question.
I still find male parenting worrisome.
Not necessarily bad.
To me heterosexuality involves a natural accord.
This can be seen in terms of nature.
Ideally I would opt for the order our livelihood has emerged from.
This is not to say gay people are bad or inferior.
Nor is it to condemn gay parenting per se.


I think this issue needs to be viewed differently.
Would 4 partner bi-sexuality parenting be a good thing too?


As for males, I think surrogacy can cause later problems.
Adoption from third world countries seems preferable.
My gut feeling is negative re male parenting.
Ths can be a guide of sorts IMAO.
I don't see this synonymous with bigotry.

In viewing evolution as something we can do as we like with, in many areas, may invite further problems. Gay parenting may make for a better world. I just don't know. It may also add to life's complications. When we condone something with great enthusiasm, we may do so for some wrong reasons as well as better reasons.
When people use the bigot word they sometimes fail to see that a groundswell of emotion is not the same as looking hard at issues and their possible repercussions.
This was essentially the position I took in my original post.

I prefer to sit on the fence than belligerently support something that involves many rights, including the right to have one's partner of any sex as a legal one.
In our brave new world the latter seems very real, as does universal change, along with the right of anyone to raise difficult issues that may reflect on any new sexual socialization.

Sometimes in glorifying all the aspects of change too strongly we become the latter day bigots, more so than those we choose to condemn in our one sentence condemnations.


(So your view is based on ignorance then. ) This is a settled issue. Same sex parents have demonstrably the same affect as 2 opposite sex parents. A stable home is far more beneficial than having one of each sex.

Old f/tard is more powerful!Rolleyes
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15-07-2014, 06:53 PM
RE: Congratulations.
Thanks Anjele; I have never seriously gone out of my way to try and upset people.

I try and express my own considerations, not the views of all the lobbyists.

If people hate what I genuinely express that's really their problem.

I value free speech.Drinking Beverage
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15-07-2014, 06:54 PM
RE: Congratulations.
(15-07-2014 06:06 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(15-07-2014 05:57 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  A difficult question.
I still find male parenting worrisome.
Not necessarily bad.
To me heterosexuality involves a natural accord.
This can be seen in terms of nature.
Ideally I would opt for the order our livelihood has emerged from.
This is not to say gay people are bad or inferior.
Nor is it to condemn gay parenting per se.


I think this issue needs to be viewed differently.
Would 4 partner bi-sexuality parenting be a good thing too?


As for males, I think surrogacy can cause later problems.
Adoption from third world countries seems preferable.
My gut feeling is negative re male parenting.
Ths can be a guide of sorts IMAO.
I don't see this synonymous with bigotry.

In viewing evolution as something we can do as we like with, in many areas, may invite further problems. Gay parenting may make for a better world. I just don't know. It may also add to life's complications. When we condone something with great enthusiasm, we may do so for some wrong reasons as well as better reasons.
When people use the bigot word they sometimes fail to see that a groundswell of emotion is not the same as looking hard at issues and their possible repercussions.
This was essentially the position I took in my original post.

I prefer to sit on the fence than belligerently support something that involves many rights, including the right to have one's partner of any sex as a legal one.
In our brave new world the latter seems very real, as does universal change, along with the right of anyone to raise difficult issues that may reflect on any new sexual socialization.

Sometimes in glorifying all the aspects of change too strongly we become the latter day bigots, more so than those we choose to condemn in our one sentence condemnations.

So your view is based on ignorance then. This is a settled issue. Same sex parents have demonstrably the same affect as 2 opposite sex parents. A stable home is far more beneficial than having one of each sex.

I've actually heard homosexual parents can even be more of a healthy environment than same sex parents overall. The children of homosexual parents are desperately wanted, the parents have to go through major hoops to have kids. Once the child is there, it's easier for each parent to take on roles more suited to each of them since there aren't any preconceived gender roles to try and adhere to. This can result in a more harmonious, and stress free home.

Sometimes I sit and daydream about what a wonderful world it might be if everyone was gay Shy I'm weird like that Laugh out load no more unwanted children, we wouldn't be hurtling toward overpopulation. Sure it wouldn't fix everything, but man it sure would help Big Grin us straight folks will get this shit figured out eventually I hope!

Edit: and as for the woods v muffs debacle... No comment No I don't think either party is interested in working the issue out truly, why keep arguing about it Facepalm

I hope that the world turns, and things get better. But what I hope most of all is that you understand what I mean when I tell you that, even though I do not know you, and even though I may never meet you, laugh with you, cry with you, or kiss you, I love you. With all my heart, I love you. - V for Vendetta
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15-07-2014, 07:01 PM
RE: Congratulations.
Seems to me that this thread should be split. It would have been done had the players been different.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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