[split] Congratulations.
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15-07-2014, 07:03 AM
RE: Congratulations.
Quote:Just how long has this persecution been going on?

About the same amount of time Woof has gone without apologizing.

Quote:Woofs comes from a different time and place

So? This isn't the 50's Australia. This is 2014. How is "oh, that's how he was brought up" ever an acceptable excuse for bigotry?

Quote:He sincerely tried several times to grow and adjust his opinion

No he didn't. He tried to get me to remove the rep with piss poor attempts of change without actual change.

Quote:Woof said the horrible things he was taught out loud

So you agree they were horrible. Yet, you defend them with "free speech". Meanwhile you prosecute me for saying "horrible things". I'm confused, how exactly do you decide what horrible things are worth defending and what are worth prosecuting? Is this about Woof and I or is this about you and I?

Quote:He is denied the chance to change his mind.

No, he denies himself the chance to change his mind.

Quote:Intolerance very much went both ways here.

If by me being intolerant you are referring to me not putting up with blatant homophobic bigoted remarks, than yes there was.

Quote:If you want to change the world, you are not going to do it by calling other people names and intimidating them into silence for eons.

And you're not gonna change the world by sticking your nose in everything and making something out of nothing.

Quote:You accomplish it by showing people where they went wrong

This thread. What you are doing in this thread is where you are going wrong.

Quote:Maybe I am not as shocked as you are because not too long ago EVERYONE was Mr. Woofs.

Except it's not 2000 and not long ago. It's 2000 and 14.

Quote:Because a million CONVERSATIONS took place, because people were engaged, talked to and given a chance to understand and change.

As has happened with Woof (much his own doing creating a new thread every month) and he has not changed.

Quote:Relentless persecution has never solved any societal issues. Show me one case in history where this had a positive effect.

Well there was the American Civil War. With the persecution of the South slavery would have taken years to die out naturally.
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15-07-2014, 07:15 AM
RE: Congratulations.
Get something straight: I am not defending what Woof said. And there need be no excuses for it.

What I am saying is that your reaction is the most counter productive thing you could have done.

Persecution does not favor change. If you want Woof to learn something new, teach him.

All you are teaching him is that you know how to persecute someone relentlessly. Much like was done to gays in decades past. You are every bit as bad and misguided.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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15-07-2014, 07:27 AM
RE: Congratulations.
Quote:Get something straight: I am not defending what Woof said.

"he is entitled to free speech and his opinion about that."
"Woofs comes from a different time and place and has his own indoctrinations."

I come from a different time and place yet you were happy to chew me out for saying nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger. When I do it it's bigotry but when Woof does it it's "oh, he was just raised in a different era".

Quote:What I am saying is that your reaction is the most counter productive thing you could have done.

You talking about "the most counter productive thing you could have done" is a little rich I must say.

Quote:All you are teaching him is that you know how to persecute someone relentlessly.

You need to re-read the thread.
I explained to him in great detail and it was explained to him again after.

Quote:You are every bit as bad and misguided.

So... for not putting up with homophobic bigoted statements I'm just as bad as those that hold those views... Consider
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15-07-2014, 07:33 AM
RE: Congratulations.
(15-07-2014 07:27 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:Get something straight: I am not defending what Woof said.

"he is entitled to free speech and his opinion about that."
"Woofs comes from a different time and place and has his own indoctrinations."

I come from a different time and place yet you were happy to chew me out for saying nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger. When I do it it's bigotry but when Woof does it it's "oh, he was just raised in a different era".

Quote:What I am saying is that your reaction is the most counter productive thing you could have done.

You talking about "the most counter productive thing you could have done" is a little rich I must say.

Quote:All you are teaching him is that you know how to persecute someone relentlessly.

You need to re-read the thread.
I explained to him in great detail and it was explained to him again after.

Quote:You are every bit as bad and misguided.

So... for not putting up with homophobic bigoted statements I'm just as bad as those that hold those views... Consider

Not putting up with something is different from spending months and months persecuting someone. You don't care about change, you care about revenge.

Using the word "nigger" is even worse for someone who was born in your time, when we know damn well better.

Besides, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. You are riddled with prejudice yourself, and totally resistant to change.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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15-07-2014, 07:47 AM
RE: Congratulations.
Quote:Not putting up with something is different from spending months and months persecuting someone.

Not necessarily.

Quote:You don't care about change, you care about revenge.

Nope. Only care about an apology and change.

Quote:Using the word "nigger" is even worse for someone who was born in your time, when we know damn well better.

Exactly. It's not acceptable today.
So why are homophobic remarks?

This "he was born in a different era" is bullshit. Simply bullshit.
He is old enough to grow from what he was taught when was 10.

Quote:Besides, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. You are riddled with prejudice yourself, and totally resistant to change.

How does my opinions on things change Woofs? They're totally irrelevant separate issues. And besides, I am at least decent enough to apologize for something I say if someone takes offense in relation to racist remarks.
I'm not as racist as you think I am. Actually that reminds me of a thread I gotta make later today.
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15-07-2014, 07:54 AM
RE: Congratulations.
(15-07-2014 07:47 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:Not putting up with something is different from spending months and months persecuting someone.

Not necessarily.

Quote:You don't care about change, you care about revenge.

Nope. Only care about an apology and change.

Quote:Using the word "nigger" is even worse for someone who was born in your time, when we know damn well better.

Exactly. It's not acceptable today.
So why are homophobic remarks?

This "he was born in a different era" is bullshit. Simply bullshit.
He is old enough to grow from what he was taught when was 10.

Quote:Besides, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. You are riddled with prejudice yourself, and totally resistant to change.

How does my opinions on things change Woofs? They're totally irrelevant separate issues. And besides, I am at least decent enough to apologize for something I say if someone takes offense in relation to racist remarks.
I'm not as racist as you think I am. Actually that reminds me of a thread I gotta make later today.

That is not what I remember, I remember you repeating and insisting on calling people nigger. Good for you if you have mellowed.

All I am saying is that you are going about this in a totally unproductive and also vicious way. You come off like an authoritarian parent insisting on an apology and retaliating with severe punishment when it is not forthcoming, rather than discussing the issue. Where might you have picked that one up? It doesn't work. It can work to intimidate someone and perpetuating the problem only.

If the gay rights activists had acted like you, you'd still be in the closet today.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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15-07-2014, 08:39 AM
RE: Congratulations.
(15-07-2014 07:54 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(15-07-2014 07:47 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Not necessarily.


Nope. Only care about an apology and change.


Exactly. It's not acceptable today.
So why are homophobic remarks?

This "he was born in a different era" is bullshit. Simply bullshit.
He is old enough to grow from what he was taught when was 10.


How does my opinions on things change Woofs? They're totally irrelevant separate issues. And besides, I am at least decent enough to apologize for something I say if someone takes offense in relation to racist remarks.
I'm not as racist as you think I am. Actually that reminds me of a thread I gotta make later today.

That is not what I remember, I remember you repeating and insisting on calling people nigger. Good for you if you have mellowed.

All I am saying is that you are going about this in a totally unproductive and also vicious way. You come off like an authoritarian parent insisting on an apology and retaliating with severe punishment when it is not forthcoming, rather than discussing the issue. Where might you have picked that one up? It doesn't work. It can work to intimidate someone and perpetuating the problem only.

If the gay rights activists had acted like you, you'd still be in the closet today.

Sorry Dom you're just wrong on this one. Yeah Muffs acts like a spoiled child a lot of the time but on this one he is clearly in the right. The only way to deal with bigotry is outright condemnation and no "He is from a different time" is just a bullshit excuse to allow bigotry to continue. Woofs brings this on himself by continuing to bitch whine and moan about it while still holding those opinions.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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15-07-2014, 08:43 AM
RE: Congratulations.
(15-07-2014 08:39 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(15-07-2014 07:54 AM)Dom Wrote:  That is not what I remember, I remember you repeating and insisting on calling people nigger. Good for you if you have mellowed.

All I am saying is that you are going about this in a totally unproductive and also vicious way. You come off like an authoritarian parent insisting on an apology and retaliating with severe punishment when it is not forthcoming, rather than discussing the issue. Where might you have picked that one up? It doesn't work. It can work to intimidate someone and perpetuating the problem only.

If the gay rights activists had acted like you, you'd still be in the closet today.

Sorry Dom you're just wrong on this one. Yeah Muffs acts like a spoiled child a lot of the time but on this one he is clearly in the right. The only way to deal with bigotry is outright condemnation and no "He is from a different time" is just a bullshit excuse to allow bigotry to continue. Woofs brings this on himself by continuing to bitch whine and moan about it while still holding those opinions.

If the only way to deal with bigotry was outright condemnation

1. Muffs would be shunned here. Did you miss his racist hatred nigger episodes?

2. There would be no social evolution.

Outright condemnation causes wars. Discussion causes change.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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15-07-2014, 08:50 AM
RE: Congratulations.
Actually, this discussion ceased being about Mr. Woof a long time ago. It's about how to change things.

It's also about Muffs and me. If I were towards him like he is towards Woof, I would be demanding a real apology from him (he knows why) and I would be giving him bad reps daily so the bad rep would always stay on top until he apologized.

Instead, we are talking. We are not agreeing, but this isn't an all together bad conversation.

Way preferable to digging in and making war.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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15-07-2014, 08:52 AM
RE: Congratulations.
(15-07-2014 08:43 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(15-07-2014 08:39 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Sorry Dom you're just wrong on this one. Yeah Muffs acts like a spoiled child a lot of the time but on this one he is clearly in the right. The only way to deal with bigotry is outright condemnation and no "He is from a different time" is just a bullshit excuse to allow bigotry to continue. Woofs brings this on himself by continuing to bitch whine and moan about it while still holding those opinions.

If the only way to deal with bigotry was outright condemnation

1. Muffs would be shunned here. Did you miss his racist hatred nigger episodes?

2. There would be no social evolution.

Outright condemnation causes wars. Discussion causes change.

1: If he was still doing it yes he would be shunned.

2. No that is how we affect change. By challenging those with bigoted views and drawing them into the light of day. Did you miss the civil rights movement? They did not ask the klan nicely to stop burning them. Condemnation of views is what forces people to reexamine themselves. See the gay rights push over the last 15 years, now it is socially unacceptable to be a homophobe because the public will condemn you for it.

3. No acceptance of bigotry is what hold back progress.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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