[split] Congratulations.
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15-07-2014, 02:33 PM
RE: Congratulations.
(15-07-2014 11:25 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(15-07-2014 10:49 AM)Dom Wrote:  It has nothing to do with age, it has to do with indoctrination. You can't change indoctrination by persecution, you change it with reason and dialogue.
Why do you assume that Mr Woof was indoctrinated? What makes you think that he didn't form these beliefs on his own?

Because he is a bit older than my parent's generation. Probably he was middle aged before anyone ever spoke up to try to dispel the myths surrounding gays (who were flawed and chose sin) blacks (who were uncivilized and savage) and women (who were weak and stupid). These attitudes were not contested, they were age old givens. They were the truth by default. He didn't have to form these attitudes.

If no one challenges the status quo, people don't tend to question it. You are simply brainwashed by society.

Don't forget that the way society was in the 50s was much the same it had been for hundreds of years. It hadn't evolved much except in the way of "progress", i.e. increased creature comforts. Science. Philosophy. But not societal order. That didn't really get shaken up from the root up until the 70s.

People who are now in their 80s are true fossils, they might as well hail from the middle ages. The world they see is nothing at all like what you see. They are a piece of history, and they see things through the same eyes humanity has seen them for hundreds of years. You have never experienced the mind set that humans have had for so long, you came into a world where a previous generation had shaken everything up so hard that the norms crumbled. These norms are still not done crumbling, and probably they never will be. (See religion, animal welfare and a myriad of other societal ills still ongoing).

Every time we have a new generation becoming adults, they are the hope for the remaining societal ills to be fixed. They are the ones to break norms and create a new reality. Social evolution is finally on a roll. It has been moving at a snail's place until not long ago.

I just hope that our young people will look forward and create the society they would like to see, rather than look back and destroy fossils.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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15-07-2014, 04:28 PM
RE: Congratulations.
While you persist with up-grading that vile and vitriolic diatribe to my personal file, I refuse to enter into any further public debate.

I have been described by some members as thin skinned, a woose, weak, and a whiner: over sensitive, cowardly etc as a result of pursuing this festering issue. Now I am opting use of the 'ignore' option. I get no joy out of these mind games whatsoever and I may be a pussy to ignore you, but time indicates that this is the only solution.

At 23, I must admit, I hate to remember myself..............I wish you well.
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15-07-2014, 04:36 PM
RE: Congratulations.
(15-07-2014 08:39 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(15-07-2014 07:54 AM)Dom Wrote:  That is not what I remember, I remember you repeating and insisting on calling people nigger. Good for you if you have mellowed.

All I am saying is that you are going about this in a totally unproductive and also vicious way. You come off like an authoritarian parent insisting on an apology and retaliating with severe punishment when it is not forthcoming, rather than discussing the issue. Where might you have picked that one up? It doesn't work. It can work to intimidate someone and perpetuating the problem only.

If the gay rights activists had acted like you, you'd still be in the closet today.

Sorry Dom you're just wrong on this one. Yeah Muffs acts like a spoiled child a lot of the time but on this one he is clearly in the right. The only way to deal with bigotry is outright condemnation and no "He is from a different time" is just a bullshit excuse to allow bigotry to continue. Woofs brings this on himself by continuing to bitch whine and moan about it while still holding those opinions.

I will continue to express my views, and modify them, as I see necessary........
Unlike many on this forum, I am not locked into a rigid mind set--- one way or the other!
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15-07-2014, 04:41 PM
RE: Congratulations.
(15-07-2014 11:25 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(15-07-2014 10:49 AM)Dom Wrote:  It has nothing to do with age, it has to do with indoctrination. You can't change indoctrination by persecution, you change it with reason and dialogue.
Why do you assume that Mr Woof was indoctrinated? What makes you think that he didn't form these beliefs on his own?

I doubt that you have read all of which was being debated.
Why don't you try forming some personal views of your own?
They don't have to be locked in indefinitely you know!


"Nothing endures except change"
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15-07-2014, 04:50 PM
RE: Congratulations.
(15-07-2014 02:33 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(15-07-2014 11:25 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Why do you assume that Mr Woof was indoctrinated? What makes you think that he didn't form these beliefs on his own?

Because he is a bit older than my parent's generation. Probably he was middle aged before anyone ever spoke up to try to dispel the myths surrounding gays (who were flawed and chose sin) blacks (who were uncivilized and savage) and women (who were weak and stupid). These attitudes were not contested, they were age old givens. They were the truth by default. He didn't have to form these attitudes.

If no one challenges the status quo, people don't tend to question it. You are simply brainwashed by society.

Don't forget that the way society was in the 50s was much the same it had been for hundreds of years. It hadn't evolved much except in the way of "progress", i.e. increased creature comforts. Science. Philosophy. But not societal order. That didn't really get shaken up from the root up until the 70s.

People who are now in their 80s are true fossils, they might as well hail from the middle ages. The world they see is nothing at all like what you see. They are a piece of history, and they see things through the same eyes humanity has seen them for hundreds of years. You have never experienced the mind set that humans have had for so long, you came into a world where a previous generation had shaken everything up so hard that the norms crumbled. These norms are still not done crumbling, and probably they never will be. (See religion, animal welfare and a myriad of other societal ills still ongoing).

Every time we have a new generation becoming adults, they are the hope for the remaining societal ills to be fixed. They are the ones to break norms and create a new reality. Social evolution is finally on a roll. It has been moving at a snail's place until not long ago.

I just hope that our young people will look forward and create the society they would like to see, rather than look back and destroy fossils.

As for all those crumbling norms............not really indicative that the world will become a sane, happy, and liberated place.........
Even those 80 y/os may still hold a few truths.
Liberation has some strange allies.
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15-07-2014, 04:55 PM
RE: Congratulations.
(15-07-2014 04:50 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(15-07-2014 02:33 PM)Dom Wrote:  Because he is a bit older than my parent's generation. Probably he was middle aged before anyone ever spoke up to try to dispel the myths surrounding gays (who were flawed and chose sin) blacks (who were uncivilized and savage) and women (who were weak and stupid). These attitudes were not contested, they were age old givens. They were the truth by default. He didn't have to form these attitudes.

If no one challenges the status quo, people don't tend to question it. You are simply brainwashed by society.

Don't forget that the way society was in the 50s was much the same it had been for hundreds of years. It hadn't evolved much except in the way of "progress", i.e. increased creature comforts. Science. Philosophy. But not societal order. That didn't really get shaken up from the root up until the 70s.

People who are now in their 80s are true fossils, they might as well hail from the middle ages. The world they see is nothing at all like what you see. They are a piece of history, and they see things through the same eyes humanity has seen them for hundreds of years. You have never experienced the mind set that humans have had for so long, you came into a world where a previous generation had shaken everything up so hard that the norms crumbled. These norms are still not done crumbling, and probably they never will be. (See religion, animal welfare and a myriad of other societal ills still ongoing).

Every time we have a new generation becoming adults, they are the hope for the remaining societal ills to be fixed. They are the ones to break norms and create a new reality. Social evolution is finally on a roll. It has been moving at a snail's place until not long ago.

I just hope that our young people will look forward and create the society they would like to see, rather than look back and destroy fossils.

As for all those crumbling norms............not really indicative that the world will become a sane, happy, and liberated place.........
Even those 80 y/os may still hold a few truths.
Liberation has some strange allies.



I'm not sure any one group has the answers for sane and happy. Which is why we actually operate be t er as a melting pot

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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15-07-2014, 04:57 PM
RE: Congratulations.
(15-07-2014 11:10 AM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(15-07-2014 10:49 AM)Dom Wrote:  It has nothing to do with age, it has to do with indoctrination. You can't change indoctrination by persecution, you change it with reason and dialogue.

Who excused him? Not me. There is no excuse, there is a reason. If you know the reason, you can effect change.

Persecution is always wrong. It's like a feud. Reason flies out the window. Some place, someone has to stop it or we simply perpetuate everything.

You are perfectly right, it was disgusting. Nobody is defending it. Certainly not me.

But spending month after month stalking someone, sniping anytime the make a peep, and posting daily in their rep for MONTHS and MONTHS and MONTHS is not the way to effect any change, it's just being vindictive.

Confronting ignorance and continually doing so, using reason and proof, that changes things. We didn't get the ball rolling to effect huge social changes that you all enjoy today by being quiet and going away, we were in people's faces and we would not go away. And we were loud.

But we didn't judge them the way they judged us. We were interested in lasting change, not vendettas.

This I can agree with Smile

Nothing exists purely in black and white.
It is a bit of a joke pushing the preferred barrow too hard in order to establish some 'absolute truth'.. A bit of all round balance sometimes helps.
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15-07-2014, 05:02 PM
RE: Congratulations.
(14-07-2014 05:32 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I see no reason to apologize for an opinion, other than if it was extremely insensitive, and even here one should not be obliged to apologize for their view; rather, any upset that may have followed the contention.

That very well may be the most sincere apology I've ever seen. ... Good on ya evil WoofCritter. Thumbsup

#sigh
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15-07-2014, 05:15 PM
RE: Congratulations.
(15-07-2014 04:57 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(15-07-2014 11:10 AM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  This I can agree with Smile

Nothing exists purely in black and white.
It is a bit of a joke pushing the preferred barrow too hard in order to establish some 'absolute truth'.. A bit of all round balance sometimes helps.

I'm not sure exactly what you're even talking about. It sounds as though you're trying to tell me there's a round balance between reality and ignorance, but I don't know. If you want to know the truth about homosexuals as opposed to your current views, feel free to PM me.

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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15-07-2014, 05:31 PM
RE: Congratulations.
I rest my case, Dom. Bowing

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