[split] Conversations with Theists/Creationists
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13-03-2015, 03:31 PM
RE: [split] Conversations with Theists/Creationists
(13-03-2015 08:23 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-03-2015 12:42 AM)A New Hope Wrote:  It does but you cant see because you do not wish to see.... I mean most christians do not wish to see either so its perfectly understandable. There has been no evidence ive ever looked at that disproves anything I believe

There is no evidence that supports what you believe, and that is more important.

Quote:... but thats less what im here for... im more here to see evolution the way yall see it.

If you wish to understand evolution, you will need to read some books and do some thinking. Then you may understand it. That's the way we see it.
Theres evidence, evidence that could not have even been known to the writers of the bible.
Lmao I understand what your trying to say and maybe this quest for knowledge is going to have to wait till summer when I have more free time, it was stupid of me I guess to assume that atheists would be any different than christians other than their a/theistic views. I understand im going to have to read some books thats something I def dont have the time for..... by coming here I was hoping really to get more of a guide line of where to start and in which direction should I guide my decent through all the literature. To find out which sources are most respected in the atheistic community. Really I want to minimize the amount of time and money wasted when I finally start my journey.
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13-03-2015, 03:44 PM
RE: [split] Conversations with Theists/Creationists
(13-03-2015 03:31 PM)A New Hope Wrote:  
(13-03-2015 08:23 AM)Chas Wrote:  There is no evidence that supports what you believe, and that is more important.


If you wish to understand evolution, you will need to read some books and do some thinking. Then you may understand it. That's the way we see it.
Theres evidence, evidence that could not have even been known to the writers of the bible.
Lmao I understand what your trying to say and maybe this quest for knowledge is going to have to wait till summer when I have more free time, it was stupid of me I guess to assume that atheists would be any different than christians other than their a/theistic views. I understand im going to have to read some books thats something I def dont have the time for..... by coming here I was hoping really to get more of a guide line of where to start and in which direction should I guide my decent through all the literature. To find out which sources are most respected in the atheistic community. Really I want to minimize the amount of time and money wasted when I finally start my journey.

If there's things you would want to look up, it may help to start with looking up deeply these "things they couldn't of known" claims that are constantly thrown out. Muslims make the claims constantly too, but various ancient texts claims of that are directly false misunderstandings of what ancient people DID know. Same line of thinking that giant structures must of been made by Alien technology and not mankind. The other way of saying they had this amazing knowledge is people interpreting poetic language into a structure or manner they claim it is saying. Generations of people have interpreted these texts in dozens of different ways. They really aren't saying something they couldn't know when they're throwing out generic proclamations.

You look to have delusions of grandeur. if you think you're verging on anything that will enlighten anyone else but yourself, you're fooling yourself into just further convincing yourself of something. Think about who you are trying to enlighten.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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13-03-2015, 03:45 PM
RE: [split] Conversations with Theists/Creationists
(13-03-2015 03:31 PM)A New Hope Wrote:  
(13-03-2015 08:23 AM)Chas Wrote:  There is no evidence that supports what you believe, and that is more important.


If you wish to understand evolution, you will need to read some books and do some thinking. Then you may understand it. That's the way we see it.
Theres evidence, evidence that could not have even been known to the writers of the bible.
Lmao I understand what your trying to say and maybe this quest for knowledge is going to have to wait till summer when I have more free time, it was stupid of me I guess to assume that atheists would be any different than christians other than their a/theistic views. I understand im going to have to read some books thats something I def dont have the time for..... by coming here I was hoping really to get more of a guide line of where to start and in which direction should I guide my decent through all the literature. To find out which sources are most respected in the atheistic community. Really I want to minimize the amount of time and money wasted when I finally start my journey.

Just a kindly suggestion: it is usually more productive asking for information and help without using insult and condescension.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-03-2015, 03:45 PM
RE: [split] Conversations with Theists/Creationists
(13-03-2015 08:18 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-03-2015 12:44 AM)A New Hope Wrote:  Lol well luckily just like with science it best to keep personal beliefs out of it and create a conclusion out of the whole picture otherewise your bias is more likely to influence your conclusion in the end.

What does that even mean? How is that responsive to the point?
Lol sorry what im saying is when searching for knowledge it is best to remain objective until youve reached the end of your quest and can make a conclusion based off EVERYTHING youve learned rather than trying to create a conclusion before youve even started and then try and bend all you learn to fit your conclusion. This is why I really dont care to try and fight or give my opinion to you guys and why I keep stating that all I really want is links and book titles and documentary titles that yall found either interesting or helpful in understanding evolution. I understand how that goes against your schemas though which is why I said before talk ALL the SHIT you need just keep the links coming. Wink
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13-03-2015, 03:46 PM
RE: [split] Conversations with Theists/Creationists
(13-03-2015 03:31 PM)A New Hope Wrote:  
(13-03-2015 08:23 AM)Chas Wrote:  There is no evidence that supports what you believe, and that is more important.


If you wish to understand evolution, you will need to read some books and do some thinking. Then you may understand it. That's the way we see it.
Theres evidence, evidence that could not have even been known to the writers of the bible.
Lmao I understand what your trying to say and maybe this quest for knowledge is going to have to wait till summer when I have more free time, it was stupid of me I guess to assume that atheists would be any different than christians other than their a/theistic views. I understand im going to have to read some books thats something I def dont have the time for..... by coming here I was hoping really to get more of a guide line of where to start and in which direction should I guide my decent through all the literature. To find out which sources are most respected in the atheistic community. Really I want to minimize the amount of time and money wasted when I finally start my journey.

Since you are so smart I will just assume you already know that not all atheists believe in evolution. Atheism makes no assertions about evolution. Atheism is only about a disbelief in god(s).


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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13-03-2015, 04:01 PM
RE: [split] Conversations with Theists/Creationists
(13-03-2015 03:44 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(13-03-2015 03:31 PM)A New Hope Wrote:  Theres evidence, evidence that could not have even been known to the writers of the bible.
Lmao I understand what your trying to say and maybe this quest for knowledge is going to have to wait till summer when I have more free time, it was stupid of me I guess to assume that atheists would be any different than christians other than their a/theistic views. I understand im going to have to read some books thats something I def dont have the time for..... by coming here I was hoping really to get more of a guide line of where to start and in which direction should I guide my decent through all the literature. To find out which sources are most respected in the atheistic community. Really I want to minimize the amount of time and money wasted when I finally start my journey.

If there's things you would want to look up, it may help to start with looking up deeply these "things they couldn't of known" claims that are constantly thrown out. Muslims make the claims constantly too, but various ancient texts claims of that are directly false misunderstandings of what ancient people DID know. Same line of thinking that giant structures must of been made by Alien technology and not mankind. The other way of saying they had this amazing knowledge is people interpreting poetic language into a structure or manner they claim it is saying. Generations of people have interpreted these texts in dozens of different ways. They really aren't saying something they couldn't know when they're throwing out generic proclamations.

You look to have delusions of grandeur. if you think you're verging on anything that will enlighten anyone else but yourself, you're fooling yourself into just further convincing yourself of something. Think about who you are trying to enlighten.
Lol I understand your point of view and will defend to the death your right to believe it. One that al2ays boggles my mind is in revelations. In there it talks about.......blah blah blah.....the antichrist will take over the world.....blah blah blah...... will be elected on a platform of peace.....blah blah blah.......then during his rule these two witnesses will arise to mess with the peace and the AC will kill them. Alll very boring so far.... but the next part is what I dont understand the VERY second he kills them EVERYONE EVERYWHERE will rush out of their homes and throw the biggest celebration the world has ever seen for three days. Now given the tech at the time how would it have been even fathom able to deliver news all at once all over the world to every man woman and child the very instant it occurred? I mean take it as you will? I really could not give less fucks. Cool
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13-03-2015, 04:30 PM
RE: [split] Conversations with Theists/Creationists
(13-03-2015 04:01 PM)A New Hope Wrote:  Lol I understand your point of view and will defend to the death your right to believe it. One that al2ays boggles my mind is in revelations. In there it talks about.......blah blah blah.....the antichrist will take over the world.....blah blah blah...... will be elected on a platform of peace.....blah blah blah.......then during his rule these two witnesses will arise to mess with the peace and the AC will kill them. Alll very boring so far.... but the next part is what I dont understand the VERY second he kills them EVERYONE EVERYWHERE will rush out of their homes and throw the biggest celebration the world has ever seen for three days. Now given the tech at the time how would it have been even fathom able to deliver news all at once all over the world to every man woman and child the very instant it occurred? I mean take it as you will? I really could not give less fucks. Cool

And your point is ... ? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-03-2015, 05:57 PM
RE: [split] Conversations with Theists/Creationists
(13-03-2015 03:46 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(13-03-2015 03:31 PM)A New Hope Wrote:  Theres evidence, evidence that could not have even been known to the writers of the bible.
Lmao I understand what your trying to say and maybe this quest for knowledge is going to have to wait till summer when I have more free time, it was stupid of me I guess to assume that atheists would be any different than christians other than their a/theistic views. I understand im going to have to read some books thats something I def dont have the time for..... by coming here I was hoping really to get more of a guide line of where to start and in which direction should I guide my decent through all the literature. To find out which sources are most respected in the atheistic community. Really I want to minimize the amount of time and money wasted when I finally start my journey.

Since you are so smart I will just assume you already know that not all atheists believe in evolution. Atheism makes no assertions about evolution. Atheism is only about a disbelief in god(s).
Yes look at the word its self a = absence of or without, theism = belief in the existence of a god or gods; specifically : belief in the existence of one God viewed as the creative source of the human race and the world who transcends yet is immanent in the world. No where in their does it make any reference to what you do believe as an atheist just simply what you dont believe.

I ASSUMED (which was wrong of me [ dont make an ASS out of U and ME] Sad ) that most people would feel slightly unsatisfied with just saying "I dont believe in God" and would have already begun the journey im preparing to enter. And would therefore been more willing to share information. .... but for assuming that... I am genuinely sorry it was unbecoming of me. Confused
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13-03-2015, 08:28 PM
RE: [split] Conversations with Theists/Creationists
(13-03-2015 02:37 PM)A New Hope Wrote:  The Hebrew word yom1 has three literal meanings - a 12-hour period of time (sunrise to sunset), a 24-hour period of time from sunset to sunset (the Hebrew day), and an indefinite period of time............Rolleyes *cough and clears throat* but you know whatevs Wink

There are specific words used to signify longer periods of time. Every single other usage of the word yom in the Bible is a reference to a 24 hour period of time. Even if that was not the case, and it is, Jewish and Christian tradition for Millennia held that it was a literal 6 days and 1 to rest. This only started to change, and not even to all believers, after the age and formation of the Earth became known and made a literal reading of Genesis impossible. It's not even the only problem with Genesis anyway.

You, and may others, are trying to mutilate a fairytale to preserve a superstition. Not that it maters as Evolution is an established fact and arguing about the minutia of a made up story is a waste of time for everyone but the person who believes the made up story.

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13-03-2015, 09:09 PM (This post was last modified: 14-03-2015 01:34 AM by WhiskeyDebates.)
RE: [split] Conversations with Theists/Creationists
(13-03-2015 03:45 PM)A New Hope Wrote:  
(13-03-2015 08:18 AM)Chas Wrote:  What does that even mean? How is that responsive to the point?
Lol sorry what im saying is when searching for knowledge it is best to remain objective until youve reached the end of your quest and can make a conclusion based off EVERYTHING youve learned rather than trying to create a conclusion before youve even started and then try and bend all you learn to fit your conclusion. This is why I really dont care to try and fight or give my opinion to you guys and why I keep stating that all I really want is links and book titles and documentary titles that yall found either interesting or helpful in understanding evolution. I understand how that goes against your schemas though which is why I said before talk ALL the SHIT you need just keep the links coming. Wink

So let me get this right you don't have the time to do a Google search for "Best books on evolution" and click like...the first 3 links and have the answer instantly, but you DO have time to come to a forum ask the question you could ask Google and wait for people to respond with the information you want. While I personally find that lazy and stupid I'll bite anyway.

The Greatest Show on Earth
Why Evolution is True

Those are two of the best as far as books go, and they are very easy to read, even for idiots, so that's a good place for you to start.

The Rough Guide to Evolution
Is less in depth but a much easier read then most, it's also funny and touches on more the just the evidence. It's a bit more....beginner then I like but that's personal preference.

Evolution: What the Fossils Say and Why It Matters

This book deals with one very specific type of evidence for Evolution. I'd argue it's one of the better ones on the subject of the Fossil record.

Other good books on the Subject include, but are in no way limited to, the following:
Evolution: The Triumph of an Idea
Your Inner Fish: A Journey into the 3.5-Billion-Year History of the Human Body

Aron Ra has a great series on Youtube called The Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism which is about the best deconstruction of and explanation of why, even if evolution was not a fact and it is, creationism is still false and not correct.
10th Foundational Falsehood of Creationism is arguably the best of the series dealing more with evolution then the problems of Creationism. It uses a lot of technical words and you might want to have a decent understanding of evolution before you watch it or your likely to just end up confused.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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