[split] Conversations with Theists/Creationists
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09-03-2015, 09:58 PM
RE: [split] Conversations with Theists/Creationists
Lol I believe In natural selection. Natuaral selection is easy to see as you pointed out the relationship between the wolf and the dog. But I have yet to see a dog breed anything other than a dog. As a STUDENT (I do not claim to be a authority) of biology natural selection is something I use and deal with on the daily. So lets establish that natural selection is a god damn fact. But evolution as a whole is a theory. Nothing more. Natural selction explains phenotype differences but thats about it.....
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09-03-2015, 09:59 PM
RE: [split] Conversations with Theists/Creationists
To say that evolution has predictions that come true is to broad a statement.
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09-03-2015, 10:08 PM
RE: [split] Conversations with Theists/Creationists
(09-03-2015 09:58 PM)A New Hope Wrote:  Lol I believe In natural selection. Natuaral selection is easy to see as you pointed out the relationship between the wolf and the dog. But I have yet to see a dog breed anything other than a dog.

Nor will you, and to expect otherwise is to fundamentally misunderstand how evolution works.


(09-03-2015 09:58 PM)A New Hope Wrote:  As a STUDENT (I do not claim to be a authority) of biology natural selection is something I use and deal with on the daily. So lets establish that natural selection is a god damn fact. But evolution as a whole is a theory. Nothing more. Natural selction explains phenotype differences but thats about it.....


Nothing more? As a 'student', you're inability to distinguish between the colloquial and scientific definitions of 'theory' is staggering, and speaks only to either your ignorance or ineptitude. Germs and gravity are 'only theories' as well, so I guess that means you'll stop washing your hands and start walking off the end of tall buildings now, correct? Facepalm


I think we got a Dunning-Kruger here.

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09-03-2015, 10:09 PM
RE: [split] Conversations with Theists/Creationists
(09-03-2015 09:13 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(09-03-2015 04:38 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  ...
Or, you know, you can simply demand evidence for your beliefs. Combine that with the honest realization that there is not enough evidence to warrant positive belief in the supernatural, and you're done.

(09-03-2015 07:57 PM)A New Hope Wrote:  ...
I'm here for a nice easy discussion no reason to be hostile.
...

You thought EK was being hostile?

You're new here, right? Laugh out load

@EK,
Please stop being so damned hostile when passively stating your opinion loaded with annoying facts.
Thanks.

As they say, the truth hurts and EK was firing off the truth like bullets from a machine gun. A New Hope probably can't handle the truth so quickly in succession.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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09-03-2015, 10:26 PM (This post was last modified: 09-03-2015 10:30 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: [split] Conversations with Theists/Creationists
(09-03-2015 09:59 PM)A New Hope Wrote:  To say that evolution has predictions that come true is to broad a statement.


An example.

Humans have 46 (23 pairs) chromosomes, while the other Great Apes (Orangutangs, Gorillas, and Chimpanzees) all have 48 (24 pairs) chromosomes. If we are as closely related to the other Great Apes as indicated by comparative morphology, then evolution would predict that at one time Homo Sapiens also had 48 chromosomes. However we no longer have 48, we have 46. What could have happened to get from 48 to 46? Well, just losing a whole chromosome set would be fatal, so that option is out. Therefore evolution predicted that most likely some chromosomes fused together, and if we examine the human genome, we should find a human chromosome with evidence that it was once two sets of chromosomes. That is the prediction of evolution.

We can, and did, test that prediction. Chromosomes have clear markers at their ends (Telomere) and their centers (Centromere). If a chromosome is fused from a previous set of ancestral chromosomes, we would expect to find two sets of centromeres instead of one, and a extra set of telomeres within the chromosome instead of just at it's ends.

That is exactly what we found within human Chromosome 2.


[Image: Chromosome2_merge.png]


Evolution made a prediction.


Science validated it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosome_2_%28human%29

Quote:The evidence for this includes:

- The correspondence of chromosome 2 to two ape chromosomes. The closest human relative, the chimpanzee, has near-identical DNA sequences to human chromosome 2, but they are found in two separate chromosomes. The same is true of the more distant gorilla and orangutan.

- The presence of a vestigial centromere. Normally a chromosome has just one centromere, but in chromosome 2 there are remnants of a second centromere.

- The presence of vestigial telomeres. These are normally found only at the ends of a chromosome, but in chromosome 2 there are additional telomere sequences in the middle.

- Chromosome 2 presents very strong evidence in favour of the common descent of humans and other apes. According to researcher J. W. IJdo, "We conclude that the locus cloned in cosmids c8.1 and c29B is the relic of an ancient telomere-telomere fusion and marks the point at which two ancestral ape chromosomes fused to give rise to human chromosome 2."

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09-03-2015, 11:06 PM
RE: [split] Conversations with Theists/Creationists
Lol I get that we will never see a dog become anything else in our life time thats okay natural selection needs time to change things that dramatically. And really germs and gravity? Germs are something we can see these days there a fact, theres to much scientific evidence and research proving that germs and gravity exist ( all though to be fair we always knew gravity existed we just never named it. Its almost as bad as saying columbus discovered America.) But even with all that we still havent gotten to the root of your belief. You just keep spouting the same things like they somehow disprove everything. Im not here to fight im here to have yall show me how to paint with ALL the colors of the wind. Maybe if I explain a little bit about myself yall can stop bitching and help me understand what you see when you look out at the world.
I was born into a christian family and at the age of 4 was enrolled in a private CHRISTIAN school were on top of the regular work load that the average student faces we were forced to study the bible daily (learn a verse, learn the stories, briefly go over prophecy etc) at the age of 12 I moved into public school where my only christian influence (besides home of course) was church. By the age 14 I stopped participating in church finding that most were either (for lack of a better word.... or maybe the perfect word) scams the other half were filled with hypocrites that only knew the bible enough to be self righteous but maintain no real relationship with God. Needless to say I stopped going to church and decided to just read my bible a total of an hour a week (10 minutes most days) by the time I was 16 I met a girl at a rave I was at who invited me to her church where I found a lot more genuine christians. Christians actually filled with love and humble as fuck. The pastor was also gay, but man did he know the bible more than any pastor I had met previously. At the age of 17 I moved away to help a friend start a tattoo business and to start college. I only did one class per semester wetting my feet in various majors. Now that that business is well underway ive dedicated myself fully in school this semester. Where now I find myself curious at the age of 21 at what exactley an atheist sees when he/she looks out at the world. (I also consider myself an independent christian as alot of my views and interpretations are not generally used in the average close minded church)
So my brothers and sisters enlighten me.
Lets start at the beginning how did the universe come into existence?
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09-03-2015, 11:10 PM
RE: [split] Conversations with Theists/Creationists
(09-03-2015 11:06 PM)A New Hope Wrote:  ...
Lets start at the beginning how did the universe come into existence?

So far there are two strong theories for this but they could both be true...

1. Universe-creating pixies did it.

2. Turtles. Turtles all the way down.

Thumbsup

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09-03-2015, 11:14 PM
[split] Conversations with Theists/Creationists
Teach me like you would a child
Assume ive lived under a rock and have never heard of evoultion. 0.o
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09-03-2015, 11:17 PM
RE: [split] Conversations with Theists/Creationists
Lol turtles I like that one....... what if the universe was nothing more than the imaginative though of a giant floating turtle living in the 1000th dimension O.O I was blind but now I see
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09-03-2015, 11:35 PM
RE: [split] Conversations with Theists/Creationists
(09-03-2015 11:14 PM)A New Hope Wrote:  Teach me like you would a child
Assume ive lived under a rock and have never heard of evoultion. 0.o

I like to equate evolution to a tree, the trunk is the first universal life form that started it all and all the branches are the different species that have evolved from that life form. Evolution is pretty much passing heritable traits over generations. Good example are Giraffes. Their early ancestors ate leaves but they could not reach them, because of that they couldn't each much and could not survive too long so over time, since having a longer neck helped them survive longer and they could pass on that trait more often, it kept evolving and evolving to the Giraffes you see today with long necks.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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