[split] Debating Lion IRC
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15-01-2013, 01:42 PM
RE: [split] Debating Lion IRC
Pretty sure KC sees himself as one of the in-crowd, even if the rest don't Tongue I mean, there's a long, demented tradition of Calvinism to which he is the heir. As a Christian, *I* opine, he sees himself as a student, not breaking new ground, but rediscovering lost knowledge... right / wrong / defenestration worthy KC ?
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15-01-2013, 01:51 PM
RE: [split] Debating Lion IRC
(15-01-2013 01:42 PM)morondog Wrote:  Pretty sure KC sees himself as one of the in-crowd, even if the rest don't Tongue I mean, there's a long, demented tradition of Calvinism to which he is the heir. As a Christian, *I* opine, he sees himself as a student, not breaking new ground, but rediscovering lost knowledge... right / wrong / defenestration worthy KC ?
Exactly.

The beliefs I hold are very, very old.

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15-01-2013, 01:52 PM
RE: [split] Debating Lion IRC
(15-01-2013 01:13 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(15-01-2013 12:14 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  The atheist-Christian relationships.

And yes it does affect it. There are many that see him as a typical Christian and that he represents many of the frustrations that atheists express about Christians.

We're not all like that.

We're not all arrogant and abrasive and use double speak and random musings for a "debate".

It's frustrating that I'm seen as the "rarity" and not the norm. That's a glaring problem. There have been many instances when something like this is said: "KC is just different. He's a rarity."

That actually bothers me (I know it's a compliment and I thank anyone who says that about me). When outsiders view the way I present myself as a Christian as atypical, it's confirmation that I have a lot of work to do.

And then, people this come along and fulfill stereotypes and preconceived notions about us, and I continue to get labeled as "different".

I've always said that my issue wasn't with non-believers but with believers.


Yeah, but you are different. Your own church says so. Your brand of christianity is not mainstream.
Yeah, I know.

Been working on that too Undecided

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15-01-2013, 01:54 PM
RE: [split] Debating Lion IRC
(15-01-2013 01:51 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Exactly.

The beliefs I hold are very, very old.
& very very crazy Thumbsup
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15-01-2013, 02:17 PM
RE: [split] Debating Lion IRC
I think if I were to believe again I'd have to be Calvinist because its the only way I could be relaxed about the majority going to hell. It's all in god's hands and I have no responsibility to convince people. It makes debating so much less stressful. Of course I still think the concept of hell is despicable- the penalty infinitely outweighing the crime.
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15-01-2013, 02:28 PM
RE: [split] Debating Lion IRC
(15-01-2013 01:51 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(15-01-2013 01:42 PM)morondog Wrote:  Pretty sure KC sees himself as one of the in-crowd, even if the rest don't Tongue I mean, there's a long, demented tradition of Calvinism to which he is the heir. As a Christian, *I* opine, he sees himself as a student, not breaking new ground, but rediscovering lost knowledge... right / wrong / defenestration worthy KC ?
Exactly.

The beliefs I hold are very, very old odd.
fixt. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-01-2013, 04:01 PM
RE: I miss theists.
(15-01-2013 10:05 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(14-01-2013 10:11 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  You mean retarded as in mentally handicapped? Laughat As in...hey look everybody.


Thats pretty ad hommy of you. And not very PC.
I've seen atheist fora where alluding to someone's retardation is seen as offensive to the disabled.
Yes.

I'm saying that, as presented by you, your deductive reasoning and logic skills are on par with the mentally handicapped.

This is not an ad hominem. This is apparent fact by your inability to understand simplicity.

Wow! Seems like you're trying to take the terse and deadly hat from Chas.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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15-01-2013, 04:21 PM
RE: I miss theists.
(14-01-2013 11:32 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  One extraordinary claim I think demands extraordinary evidence is the counter-apologetic that every single report of a supernatural experience thoughout human history - billions of humans, 30, 40, 50 thousand years of human experience are all delusions or deliberate lies.

Just want to chime in here, because if I'm understanding what you're saying, then this is a false dichotomy. They are not ONLY either delusions or deliberate lies- there are other possibilities. So a delusion is a belief that doesn't coincide with what is generally accepted as reality, or generally accepted as truth.

There is the possibility that the truth of the matter is unknowable, so there's no way to come to a definite conclusion- such as with events in history without sufficient evidence to support a solid position... though in the case of history, you might expect that an extraordinary event would result in an extraordinary amount of immediate documentation- contemporary writings, inscriptions, works of art, etc. Someone wouldn't be lying about their interpretation of events, and they wouldn't necessarily be delusional- they'd just be jumping to conclusions without sufficient evidence.

There's the possibility that the accepted reality is based off of a misunderstood physical process. This last possibility is most likely the case with the majority of extraordinary claims throughout history- people lacking a sufficient understanding of physical processes can't sufficiently explain events without reaching for a supernatural intervention to bridge the gaps in knowledge (otherwise they'd be left without any full explanation at all, and that's just maddening!). The understanding of the world that makes up "generally accepted reality" does change over time, so while today we might call someone delusional if they believe in Zeus, that wasn't the case 2300 years ago in Greece. That would have been a perfectly sane belief in that age. And claiming the existence of Zeus wouldn't have been a deliberate lie either.

Moreover, of the billions of humans each having their own human experience, while a few of them have supernatural experiences- many of interpretations of those experiences conflict with others who have had similar experiences. Which experiences are you to trust? The only way to reach any sort of knowledge is to base your interpretation off of empirical evidence. Otherwise, we must simply accept the word of every nutjob who opens his or her mouth. Especially if they write down a story second or third-hand so that, hundreds of years, someone can make a decision about whether what you wrote down was canonical or not using only their predetermined belief-system as a filter.

So in summary (TL;DR) - the experiences supernatural of (potentially) billions of humans throughout history are not required to be only either delusions or deliberate lies- they can also be misunderstandings/misinterpretations, or assumptions. So it is not quite so unbelievable as you make it out to be. People have been misunderstanding for as long as we have been capable of thinking.
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15-01-2013, 04:22 PM
RE: [split] Debating Lion IRC
(15-01-2013 11:29 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Lion IRC, you have an unanswered challenge in The Boxing Ring. Please either accept or decline.

kingschosen, you are being redundant. Please stop. There's no need to mention that a debate challenge is in place in a thread about that exact topic.
Oh yeah, and MYOB. I'll accept or decline (before the the offer expires) whenever I feel like it. It is an offer made to me after all, not you.

(15-01-2013 12:18 AM)Aspchizo Wrote:  So are you going to debate him...

Once there is an agreed topic and debate format, sure.
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15-01-2013, 04:26 PM
RE: [split] Debating Lion IRC
(15-01-2013 04:22 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  
(15-01-2013 11:29 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Lion IRC, you have an unanswered challenge in The Boxing Ring. Please either accept or decline.

kingschosen, you are being redundant. Please stop. There's no need to mention that a debate challenge is in place in a thread about that exact topic.
Oh yeah, and MYOB. I'll accept or decline (before the the offer expires) whenever I feel like it. It is an offer made to me after all, not you.

(15-01-2013 12:18 AM)Aspchizo Wrote:  So are you going to debate him...

Once there is an agreed topic and debate format, sure.
Please read the rules to understand why I wrote in purple.

It is MY business because I am a moderator and have a responsibility to moderate that forum.

If a challenge is not accepted, it will be closed.

I was making sure that you were aware of it - as per my responsibilities.

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