[split] Debating Lion IRC
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05-02-2013, 02:11 AM
RE: [split] Debating Lion IRC
Third time lucky....

This is in response to Lion's pathetic scrawl about Bucky....

What Lion's saying is...

you're just too skeptical Bucky. Why don't you JUST BELIEVE like the rest of
us? Come on, join the happy clappy crowd. It feels real good...I just
KNOW it would make you feel good too...but you're just too stubborn.

I have no understanding of history, no nuanced opinion, I don't want to
read, I don't want to think, I just want to believe. But I'm not going
to admit it. Especially to you Bucky. Think I'll just keep thinking,
believing and saying the same things things over and over. That'll wear
you and the others down. Best not address any issues. Mustn't take my
eye off the ball.

All my friends can't be wrong, so you must be, so I don't like you.

Anyway, I know what's true...it's all in the book...right there...why can't you
just read it? You're just too smart for your own good Bucky Ball.
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05-02-2013, 02:59 AM
RE: [split] Debating Lion IRC
(04-02-2013 11:42 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  
(03-02-2013 11:52 PM)morondog Wrote:  Well, but historically factual stuff causes everything - cause and effect. The cult of Isis didn't spring from a vacuum.
Exactly. The explanatory power of a Higher Being existing is what gives rise to theism.

(03-02-2013 11:52 PM)morondog Wrote:  Hmmm. Who makes this claim? There's no denying that Christianity became a major world religion within a few centuries. If you assert that merely the fact that Christianity became popular implies that the claims of the gospels are true... seems a bit tenuous to me ?

No the claim to which I was responding was that the Gospels are invented
IOW. Nobody saw anything they thought was miraculous.

(03-02-2013 11:52 PM)morondog Wrote:  You're talking generalities. Do you think the events of the Odyssey happened as described ? Sure I'll grant you they may be based in historical truth, but they could also be a pleasant fiction. Greeks of the period took them to be every bit as factual as you claim the gospels are.

DITTO what I said about the cult of Isis. And in any case, I am happy to to let the ancient Greco-Romans defend their own (extinct) religion.
Pity there are none of them here. What was the name of that religion which the Roman Empire adopted in its place? Oh yeah....Christianity.



(03-02-2013 11:52 PM)morondog Wrote:  And the evidence that these secular claims happened is all from your biased source, again ? *No* external evidence.

There are no external documents which can be used to invalidate the Gospel documents. And in the historical method thats all you can work with - the documents you have.

Again, the historical claim in secular terms is merely that real people had ''an experience'' that they described as a supernatural experience....etc etc.
Historians are not asked to speculate about the possible theological explanations or implications of those events.
Historians can only say whether the events themselves PROBABLY HAPPENED.
They have no historical warrant to assert that miracles never happened because the exegesis/texts and archeology dont present evidence to that effect.
All the available texts assert that the people involved believed they had seen a real miracle. No texts or archeology disproves the existence of those people or proves them liars. No contemporary historical documents show anything that would imply insanity on their part (- unless you include the bizarre willingness of early Christians to be tortured to death rather than recant.)

If the bible wasnt called "The Bible" it would be universally accepted as the greatest, most detailed set of historical documents in existence. The fact that it includes historical accounts of people who thought they had a divine experience is the only reason atheist historians belittle its content.
There are no external documents which can be used to invalidate Alice in Wonderland. Name one! All we have is "Alice in Wonderland." So Alice in Wonderland must be true.

Historians (who are ALL bad guys trying to discredit Alice) have NO HISTORICAL WARRANT to assert that "Alice in Wonderland" never happened because they have no evidence in books, or, in fact, the archaeological record, to that effect. That's right folks...NO EVIDENCE! Think about that! (but not too hard)

The author wrote that all the characters in the book, including Alice, believed they were living in wonderland. There's no literary, and simply not even any archaeological proof, that Alice and the rabbit, or, in fact, any of the other multiple characters, were insane or were liars. So they all MUST HAVE LIVED IN WONDERLAND.

Lots of 5 year olds, in fact thousands of them, have truly believed that Alice lived in Wonderland.

Some people, really naughty, biased people, have it in for us true believers...we who love the greatest book ever written. If these mythers would only take their blinkers off they'd see how valid the evidence I've just given for Alice is.
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05-02-2013, 03:17 AM
RE: [split] Debating Lion IRC
(04-02-2013 11:42 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  
(03-02-2013 11:52 PM)morondog Wrote:  Well, but historically factual stuff causes everything - cause and effect. The cult of Isis didn't spring from a vacuum.
Exactly. The explanatory power of a Higher Being existing is what gives rise to theism.
Blink What I meant was, your stated something which I could translate basically as 'history happens'... I fail to see how a 'Higher Being' explains anything.

(03-02-2013 11:52 PM)morondog Wrote:  No the claim to which I was responding was that the Gospels are invented
IOW. Nobody saw anything they thought was miraculous.
So the reason we don't see Norns and Odin nowadays is... ? Every religion has their scriptures, their sacred writings. You are claiming that uniquely among religions, the fairy-tale events described in *your* sacred book are *factually true* ? How do you dismiss the claims of other religions then ? Is the Quran made up ? Why aren't you a Muslim ?

(03-02-2013 11:52 PM)morondog Wrote:  And in any case, I am happy to to let the ancient Greco-Romans defend their own (extinct) religion.
Pity there are none of them here. What was the name of that religion which the Roman Empire adopted in its place? Oh yeah....Christianity.
So you're right because of an administrative and political decision by Constantine the Great?

(03-02-2013 11:52 PM)morondog Wrote:  And in the historical method thats all you can work with - the documents you have.
I'll give you this then. So we have now established that the only evidence that will be presented is based off the Bible, correct ?

Quote:Historians are not asked to speculate about the possible theological explanations or implications of those events.
Historians can only say whether the events themselves PROBABLY HAPPENED.
They have no historical warrant to assert that miracles never happened because the exegesis/texts and archeology dont present evidence to that effect.
The question is whether they *happened*, not whether they can be *absolutely ruled out from having happened*. Difference yes ? Sure, pope William the third could have thrown an orange to the Sun in 581 AD, assisted by GOD. Did it happen ? There's no historical or documentary record that it didn't.

And the first step, I would have thought, in questioning if these 'miracles' happened (quotation marks 'cos although it's very apparent to a believer what a miracle is, it's far from clear to me), would be to question the provenance of the texts you are so enamoured of.

So: where does the Bible come from? What makes you certain that it is truth and not just another collection of fairy-tales, distilled over time to an accepted form ?
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05-02-2013, 03:17 AM
RE: [split] Debating Lion IRC
(05-02-2013 02:59 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 11:42 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  Exactly. The explanatory power of a Higher Being existing is what gives rise to theism.


No the claim to which I was responding was that the Gospels are invented
IOW. Nobody saw anything they thought was miraculous.


DITTO what I said about the cult of Isis. And in any case, I am happy to to let the ancient Greco-Romans defend their own (extinct) religion.
Pity there are none of them here. What was the name of that religion which the Roman Empire adopted in its place? Oh yeah....Christianity.




There are no external documents which can be used to invalidate the Gospel documents. And in the historical method thats all you can work with - the documents you have.

Again, the historical claim in secular terms is merely that real people had ''an experience'' that they described as a supernatural experience....etc etc.
Historians are not asked to speculate about the possible theological explanations or implications of those events.
Historians can only say whether the events themselves PROBABLY HAPPENED.
They have no historical warrant to assert that miracles never happened because the exegesis/texts and archeology dont present evidence to that effect.
All the available texts assert that the people involved believed they had seen a real miracle. No texts or archeology disproves the existence of those people or proves them liars. No contemporary historical documents show anything that would imply insanity on their part (- unless you include the bizarre willingness of early Christians to be tortured to death rather than recant.)

If the bible wasnt called "The Bible" it would be universally accepted as the greatest, most detailed set of historical documents in existence. The fact that it includes historical accounts of people who thought they had a divine experience is the only reason atheist historians belittle its content.
There are no external documents which can be used to invalidate Alice in Wonderland. Name one! All we have is "Alice in Wonderland." So Alice in Wonderland must be true.

Historians (who are ALL bad guys trying to discredit Alice) have NO HISTORICAL WARRANT to assert that "Alice in Wonderland" never happened because they have no evidence in books, or, in fact, the archaeological record, to that effect. That's right folks...NO EVIDENCE! Think about that! (but not too hard)

The author wrote that all the characters in the book, including Alice, believed they were living in wonderland. There's no literary, and simply not even any archaeological proof, that Alice and the rabbit, or, in fact, any of the other multiple characters, were insane or were liars. So they all MUST HAVE LIVED IN WONDERLAND.

Lots of 5 year olds, in fact thousands of them, have truly believed that Alice lived in Wonderland.

Some people, really naughty, biased people, have it in for us true believers...we who love the greatest book ever written. If these mythers would only take their blinkers off they'd see how valid the evidence I've just given for Alice is.
You evil monstrous heretic. Everything also applies to Harry Potter. You're just too sinful, stubborn and rebellious to see the light. If you would give your life to Wizarding, and accept that all you are is a fallen Muggle, you would gain so much. Weeping

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist
Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (KJV)

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05-02-2013, 03:57 AM (This post was last modified: 05-02-2013 04:05 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: [split] Debating Lion IRC
(05-02-2013 03:17 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(05-02-2013 02:59 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  There are no external documents which can be used to invalidate Alice in Wonderland. Name one! All we have is "Alice in Wonderland." So Alice in Wonderland must be true.

Historians (who are ALL bad guys trying to discredit Alice) have NO HISTORICAL WARRANT to assert that "Alice in Wonderland" never happened because they have no evidence in books, or, in fact, the archaeological record, to that effect. That's right folks...NO EVIDENCE! Think about that! (but not too hard)

The author wrote that all the characters in the book, including Alice, believed they were living in wonderland. There's no literary, and simply not even any archaeological proof, that Alice and the rabbit, or, in fact, any of the other multiple characters, were insane or were liars. So they all MUST HAVE LIVED IN WONDERLAND.

Lots of 5 year olds, in fact thousands of them, have truly believed that Alice lived in Wonderland.

Some people, really naughty, biased people, have it in for us true believers...we who love the greatest book ever written. If these mythers would only take their blinkers off they'd see how valid the evidence I've just given for Alice is.
You evil monstrous heretic. Everything also applies to Harry Potter. You're just too sinful, stubborn and rebellious to see the light. If you would give your life to Wizarding, and accept that all you are is a fallen Muggle, you would gain so much. Weeping


Both of you have clearly been mislead by your fallacious ideologies instilled in your by your heretical parents, so it is up to me to show you the truth and the way...


THE WAY OF THE FORCE


[Image: priest-darth-vader.jpg]


There are no external documents that disprove the Star Wars Trilogy! (There are some inconsistencies between Episodes 1-3 of the Reformed Jedi Church and Episodes 4-6 of the Orthodox Church of the Jedi, but I digress)


There are no credible historians trying to disprove the stories attested to in the Star Wars Trilogy, so clearly they happened! And we have plenty of evidence to the contrary! There are tons of books, action figures, comics, and video games all attesting to the valid existence of the Force and the Star Wars Trilogy! And unlike your false gods, ours actually appear in real life! How could so many believers be wrong?


Is there any archeological evidence that lightsabers didn't exists? No, they just haven't found any yet! Is there any cosmological evidence that Alderaan wasn't destroyed? No, they just haven't found it yet because we don't have telescopes powerful enough to gaze into the Core Worlds to find the Alderaan system yet! You just have to have FAITH it's there! Because you can clearly see Alderaan being destroyed in story of Episode 4, and that's really all the proof anybody needs.


Ask any 4 year old if they believe in Yoda, I bet you they do! Clearly you've all grown too cynical to see the TRUTH for what it is, a TRUTH so obvious a 4 year old can see it! Clearly you should defer your judgement to the 4 year old's, it's what Yoda would want.


Fun Fact: We're the 4th largest religion in the United Kingdom, surpassing Judaism, with 0.7% of the population listed as Jedi. We're also the second largest religion in New Zealand at 1.5%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedi_census_phenomenon


PS: I can't tell you how long I've been waiting for an excuse to you the Vader Pope image... Tongue

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05-02-2013, 04:26 AM
RE: [split] Debating Lion IRC
One scary pope, he is. I like his bee eyes.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist
Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (KJV)

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05-02-2013, 04:44 AM
RE: [split] Debating Lion IRC
(05-02-2013 03:17 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(05-02-2013 02:59 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  There are no external documents which can be used to invalidate Alice in Wonderland. Name one! All we have is "Alice in Wonderland." So Alice in Wonderland must be true.

Historians (who are ALL bad guys trying to discredit Alice) have NO HISTORICAL WARRANT to assert that "Alice in Wonderland" never happened because they have no evidence in books, or, in fact, the archaeological record, to that effect. That's right folks...NO EVIDENCE! Think about that! (but not too hard)

The author wrote that all the characters in the book, including Alice, believed they were living in wonderland. There's no literary, and simply not even any archaeological proof, that Alice and the rabbit, or, in fact, any of the other multiple characters, were insane or were liars. So they all MUST HAVE LIVED IN WONDERLAND.

Lots of 5 year olds, in fact thousands of them, have truly believed that Alice lived in Wonderland.

Some people, really naughty, biased people, have it in for us true believers...we who love the greatest book ever written. If these mythers would only take their blinkers off they'd see how valid the evidence I've just given for Alice is.
You evil monstrous heretic. Everything also applies to Harry Potter. You're just too sinful, stubborn and rebellious to see the light. If you would give your life to Wizarding, and accept that all you are is a fallen Muggle, you would gain so much. Weeping
Harry Potter, heh? Yeah, right. Can't say I've read that. Sounds like science fiction. Full of witches and.. imaginary shit. You're mad...fanatical... your crazy mates flew them planes into our buildings!! Crazy fuckers. Turn women into letterboxes. Blow people up. You bastards will never go to wonderland. Alice will shoot your knees off first. Harry Potter my arse. Repent...while there's still time....my eyes have seen the coming of the white rabbit...yep, he's coming back....soon....you better believe it.
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05-02-2013, 05:04 AM
RE: [split] Debating Lion IRC
[Image: Sauron-2.jpg]

Bow before the great Lord Sauron fools.
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05-02-2013, 05:09 AM
RE: [split] Debating Lion IRC
That looks like it should be intimidating.


But it isn't...



That is disappointing.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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05-02-2013, 05:11 AM
RE: [split] Debating Lion IRC
(05-02-2013 03:57 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(05-02-2013 03:17 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You evil monstrous heretic. Everything also applies to Harry Potter. You're just too sinful, stubborn and rebellious to see the light. If you would give your life to Wizarding, and accept that all you are is a fallen Muggle, you would gain so much. Weeping


Both of you have clearly been mislead by your fallacious ideologies instilled in your by your heretical parents, so it is up to me to show you the truth and the way...


THE WAY OF THE FORCE


[Image: priest-darth-vader.jpg]


There are no external documents that disprove the Star Wars Trilogy! (There are some inconsistencies between Episodes 1-3 of the Reformed Jedi Church and Episodes 4-6 of the Orthodox Church of the Jedi, but I digress)


There are no credible historians trying to disprove the stories attested to in the Star Wars Trilogy, so clearly they happened! And we have plenty of evidence to the contrary! There are tons of books, action figures, comics, and video games all attesting to the valid existence of the Force and the Star Wars Trilogy! And unlike your false gods, ours actually appear in real life! How could so many believers be wrong?


Is there any archeological evidence that lightsabers didn't exists? No, they just haven't found any yet! Is there any cosmological evidence that Alderaan wasn't destroyed? No, they just haven't found it yet because we don't have telescopes powerful enough to gaze into the Core Worlds to find the Alderaan system yet! You just have to have FAITH it's there! Because you can clearly see Alderaan being destroyed in story of Episode 4, and that's really all the proof anybody needs.


Ask any 4 year old if they believe in Yoda, I bet you they do! Clearly you've all grown too cynical to see the TRUTH for what it is, a TRUTH so obvious a 4 year old can see it! Clearly you should defer your judgement to the 4 year old's, it's what Yoda would want.


Fun Fact: We're the 4th largest religion in the United Kingdom, surpassing Judaism, with 0.7% of the population listed as Jedi. We're also the second largest religion in New Zealand at 1.5%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedi_census_phenomenon


PS: I can't tell you how long I've been waiting for an excuse to you the Vader Pope image... Tongue
Fucking Nora. More goddam infidels. Do you really, seriously, think any sane person could fall for that star war/Jedi crap after reading Alice in Wonderland? Who came first...Alice or r2d2? I tell you the day of judgement is approaching. The looking glass will be focused on you, Johnny. There'll be weeping and grinding of teeth and you'll beg the rabbit for forgiveness, but it will be too late for you fuckers, and all the other fuckin fuckers. The wrath of the rabbit will be glorious. You'll all beg to kiss Alice's arse, and I'll be sitting pretty watching the carnage.
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