[split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
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13-11-2014, 03:06 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(13-11-2014 12:53 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(13-11-2014 06:04 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  How many times do I have to go over this? A criminal will always have access to weapons.
We can restrict their access to guns.

We already do. Doesn't work at all well.

Quote:
(13-11-2014 06:04 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Further, a criminal is not a lawful gun owner.
This is a bizzare thing to say. Anyone can pull a trigger. Anyone can become a criminal. Lawful gun owners can and do become criminals.
Lawful gun owners do get their guns stolen and into the hands of already established criminals.

Why is that bizarre? Criminals do not typically use lawfully acquired guns.

Quote:
(13-11-2014 06:04 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  If you have been convicted of a felony, you cannot legally own or obtain a gun.
There are many gun homocides/massacres committed by people who have obtained some guns via retail avenues

Yes, but school shootings have primarily been committed by people who did not have legal possession of the gun(s).

Quote:
(13-11-2014 06:04 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  People are dangerous. With or without guns.
People are more dangerous with guns.

Precisely. That is why it is the self-defense weapon of choice. No other weapon allows the weak to defend against the strong, the one against the many.

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13-11-2014, 03:13 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(13-11-2014 12:55 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(13-11-2014 09:57 AM)Chas Wrote:  Does a semi-automatic pistol with a removable magazine of 17 rounds fit the definition? Consider
Depends on the rate of fire and the speed with which a magazine can be switched.
But yeah, I'd think 17 rounds seems excessive if a person thinks their gun is for self defense. 17 rounds would be great for an offensive excercise though.

A semi-automatic firearm can be fired as fast as one can repeatedly pull the trigger. I can fire approximately one aimed shot per second at a stationary target.
With a little practice, changing a magazine can be done in a few seconds.
With a lot of practice, it can be done in less than 2 seconds.

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13-11-2014, 03:15 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(13-11-2014 02:45 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(13-11-2014 01:19 PM)wazzel Wrote:  Why so fixated on the weapon? Guns do not make people do crimes, it is just a tool. People commit crimes all the time with "lesser weapons".
Sure, but guns are, for many of them, their weapon of choice.
Why?
Because they are easily concealed and highly affective.

Why are guns the weapon of choice when USA decides to have an land invasion e.g. Iraq, Afghanistan? Why not just send of the troops armed with box cutters?


Why is it that those in USA who feel the need to carry a weapon for self defense, why do they prefer guns?

Because they are easily concealed and highly effective.
Do you have a good alternative?

Quote:Why such a fascination on guns?

What do you mean? People have all kinds of interests. Why such a fascination on the Kardashians?

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13-11-2014, 03:23 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(13-11-2014 02:57 PM)wazzel Wrote:  My point is in the absence of guns criminals will arm themselves with something else.
I disagree with this assumption.

If a small weak person is thinking of mugging someone then a gun a gun makes this easier for them. If they have to use a knife there is more risk of a fight, if they have to use brute force then forget it.
If an angry boyfriend has easy access to a gun in the heat of the moment, then it is more likely he will become a criminal.


(13-11-2014 02:57 PM)wazzel Wrote:  Army reference is silly.
I was addressing a silly argument that box cutters are just as dangerous, that deaths won't be avoided because the evil criminal will simply choose a different weapon.


(13-11-2014 02:57 PM)wazzel Wrote:  People feel the need to be armed with guns because it gives them the best chance of defense. See point 1.
That is some people's perception.

If I have a fist fight with someone, we will both probably live.
If I have a gun fight with someone then their is a higher chance that one of us will die.


(13-11-2014 02:57 PM)wazzel Wrote:  I have a few guns.
I don't have any guns. I don't go to gun shows, I don't own gun magazines, it's interesting that you ask me why I am so fixated on guns.
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13-11-2014, 03:26 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(13-11-2014 12:53 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(13-11-2014 06:04 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  How many times do I have to go over this? A criminal will always have access to weapons.
We can restrict their access to guns.

(13-11-2014 06:04 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Further, a criminal is not a lawful gun owner.
This is a bizzare thing to say. Anyone can pull a trigger. Anyone can become a criminal. Lawful gun owners can and do become criminals.
Lawful gun owners do get their guns stolen and into the hands of already established criminals.

(13-11-2014 06:04 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  If you have been convicted of a felony, you cannot legally own or obtain a gun.
There are many gun homocides/massacres committed by people who have obtained some guns via retail avenues



(13-11-2014 06:04 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  People are dangerous. With or without guns.
People are more dangerous with guns.
1. There are laws in place for that. I had to get a background check when I bought my last gun.

2. Just because a person owns a gun does not make them a criminal or make them more inclined to be a criminal. Guns do get stolen as do other things that criminals use to commit crimes.

3. More gun crimes are committed with illegally acquired guns than legally acquired guns.

4. People are more dangerous with a bat than without, or with a knife that without, or in a car than walking, etc, etc, etc......
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13-11-2014, 03:29 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(13-11-2014 03:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  Because they are easily concealed and highly effective.
Do you have a good alternative?


I have nothing to say to this because we are talking about the U.S.A. If it was another country martials arts but in u.s.a, Chas is right on this on stevil.

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13-11-2014, 03:32 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(13-11-2014 03:23 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(13-11-2014 02:57 PM)wazzel Wrote:  My point is in the absence of guns criminals will arm themselves with something else.
I disagree with this assumption.

If a small weak person is thinking of mugging someone then a gun a gun makes this easier for them. If they have to use a knife there is more risk of a fight, if they have to use brute force then forget it.
If an angry boyfriend has easy access to a gun in the heat of the moment, then it is more likely he will become a criminal.


(13-11-2014 02:57 PM)wazzel Wrote:  Army reference is silly.
I was addressing a silly argument that box cutters are just as dangerous, that deaths won't be avoided because the evil criminal will simply choose a different weapon.


(13-11-2014 02:57 PM)wazzel Wrote:  People feel the need to be armed with guns because it gives them the best chance of defense. See point 1.
That is some people's perception.

If I have a fist fight with someone, we will both probably live.
If I have a gun fight with someone then their is a higher chance that one of us will die.


(13-11-2014 02:57 PM)wazzel Wrote:  I have a few guns.
I don't have any guns. I don't go to gun shows, I don't own gun magazines, it's interesting that you ask me why I am so fixated on guns.

I do not appreciate the cut and paste out of context partial use of my statements. There is a reasonable middle ground I was hoping we could meet on, but since it looks like you can not see that I guess we are done then. Have a good night.

(13-11-2014 02:57 PM)wazzel Wrote:  I never made the counter point that other weapons are as effective. In fact I even mentioned other weapons as "lesser" in a comment. My point is in the absence of guns criminals will arm themselves with something else. Can you agree that is a likely scenario? If not them you are not being honest and further discussion is really pointless.
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13-11-2014, 03:33 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(13-11-2014 03:29 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(13-11-2014 03:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  Because they are easily concealed and highly effective.
Do you have a good alternative?


I have nothing to say to this because we are talking about the U.S.A. If it was another country martials arts but in u.s.a, Chas is right on this on stevil.

There are many places in the world far more dangerous than the U.S.A. I wouldn't want to live in any of them.

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13-11-2014, 03:39 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(13-11-2014 03:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-11-2014 03:29 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  I have nothing to say to this because we are talking about the U.S.A. If it was another country martials arts but in u.s.a, Chas is right on this on stevil.

There are many places in the world far more dangerous than the U.S.A. I wouldn't want to live in any of them.

I know that, africa period is one.(yes I know it is a continent but most of it is scary)

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13-11-2014, 03:41 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(13-11-2014 03:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-11-2014 03:29 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  I have nothing to say to this because we are talking about the U.S.A. If it was another country martials arts but in u.s.a, Chas is right on this on stevil.

There are many places in the world far more dangerous than the U.S.A. I wouldn't want to live in any of them.
No kidding. I have been to some of them.
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