[split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
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13-11-2014, 03:54 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(13-11-2014 03:32 PM)wazzel Wrote:  I do not appreciate the cut and paste out of context partial use of my statements.
I didn't mean to change the context of what you are saying. To address you again.

(13-11-2014 02:57 PM)wazzel Wrote:  I never made the counter point that other weapons are as effective.
Fair enough
(13-11-2014 02:57 PM)wazzel Wrote:  In fact I even mentioned other weapons as "lesser" in a comment.
Fair enough.

(13-11-2014 02:57 PM)wazzel Wrote:  My point is in the absence of guns criminals will arm themselves with something else. Can you agree that is a likely scenario?
No, I don't agree. Some people will choose not to commit the crime because they may see too much personal risk when they don't have a gun to use.
Some people will choose not to commit a crime when in the heat of the moment they don't have an effective weapon nearby.

(13-11-2014 02:57 PM)wazzel Wrote:  If not them you are not being honest and further discussion is really pointless.

If you think my answer is dishonest then fair enough, this is your way out of discussion with me.
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13-11-2014, 04:02 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(13-11-2014 03:54 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(13-11-2014 03:32 PM)wazzel Wrote:  I do not appreciate the cut and paste out of context partial use of my statements.
I didn't mean to change the context of what you are saying. To address you again.

(13-11-2014 02:57 PM)wazzel Wrote:  I never made the counter point that other weapons are as effective.
Fair enough
(13-11-2014 02:57 PM)wazzel Wrote:  In fact I even mentioned other weapons as "lesser" in a comment.
Fair enough.

(13-11-2014 02:57 PM)wazzel Wrote:  My point is in the absence of guns criminals will arm themselves with something else. Can you agree that is a likely scenario?
No, I don't agree. Some people will choose not to commit the crime because they may see too much personal risk when they don't have a gun to use.
Some people will choose not to commit a crime when in the heat of the moment they don't have an effective weapon nearby.

(13-11-2014 02:57 PM)wazzel Wrote:  If not them you are not being honest and further discussion is really pointless.

If you think my answer is dishonest then fair enough, this is your way out of discussion with me.
I was not looking for an out, if you are not willing to see any position but your own what is the point. That is how you are coming across. Thanks for clearing things up.

I am not a gun at all cost gun owner. I believe in reasonable regulated ownership.

I disagree on your assessment on crimes going away with out guns. I suspect some would, but far from all. Crimes of passion still happen with other weapons.

Chat later, Getting ready to get busy with kids and music for the night.
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13-11-2014, 04:09 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(13-11-2014 03:54 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(13-11-2014 02:57 PM)wazzel Wrote:  My point is in the absence of guns criminals will arm themselves with something else. [b]Can you agree that is a likely scenario?
No, I don't agree. Some people will choose not to commit the crime because they may see too much personal risk when they don't have a gun to use.
Some people will choose not to commit a crime when in the heat of the moment they don't have an effective weapon nearby.

You are wrong. Knives are effective weapons and are the second most-used murder weapon and the third most common in armed robbery.

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13-11-2014, 04:13 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(13-11-2014 04:02 PM)wazzel Wrote:  I disagree on your assessment on crimes going away with out guns. I suspect some would, but far from all.
That's an invalid interpretation of my statement.

Lets agree that some crimes would go away, but many would persist.

Of those that persist, in many cases the criminals will have less effective weapons.


(13-11-2014 04:02 PM)wazzel Wrote:  Crimes of passion still happen with other weapons.
In most cases someone gets a few lumps and bruises, which is terrible, but on a different scale from getting a bullet through them.
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13-11-2014, 04:36 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(13-11-2014 04:09 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-11-2014 03:54 PM)Stevil Wrote:  No, I don't agree. Some people will choose not to commit the crime because they may see too much personal risk when they don't have a gun to use.
Some people will choose not to commit a crime when in the heat of the moment they don't have an effective weapon nearby.

You are wrong. Knives are effective weapons and are the second most-used murder weapon and the third most common in armed robbery.

I want to say some points:

A. Knives are deadly but not like guns are. Unlike guns you can never go long range with a knife, you pretty much have to go close. If more people enjoyed exercise in the U.S and knew that getting in shape was good, they could take a basic self-defense class and learn how to beat the crap out of someone second they got a knife out. But in the U.S people don't like exercise so they tend to make it easier to use knives.

B. What is the Most used weapon in assault then if knives are second? Bare hands? If they are guns, it doesn't make guns look any better

C.Guns are used a lot more in armed robbery

D. I don't want knives to be used outside of the kitchen so there is that as well.

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13-11-2014, 05:02 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(13-11-2014 04:36 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(13-11-2014 04:09 PM)Chas Wrote:  You are wrong. Knives are effective weapons and are the second most-used murder weapon and the third most common in armed robbery.

I want to say some points:

A. Knives are deadly but not like guns are. Unlike guns you can never go long range with a knife, you pretty much have to go close. If more people enjoyed exercise in the U.S and knew that getting in shape was good, they could take a basic self-defense class and learn how to beat the crap out of someone second they got a knife out. But in the U.S people don't like exercise so they tend to make it easier to use knives.

Oh, for fuck's sake. You've made this silly argument before.

Quote:B. What is the Most used weapon in assault then if knives are second? Bare hands? If they are guns, it doesn't make guns look any better

C.Guns are used a lot more in armed robbery

The point is that knives are deadly weapons and are used in crimes.

Quote:D. I don't want knives to be used outside of the kitchen so there is that as well.

You need to join the real world.

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13-11-2014, 05:15 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(13-11-2014 05:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-11-2014 04:36 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  I want to say some points:

A. Knives are deadly but not like guns are. Unlike guns you can never go long range with a knife, you pretty much have to go close. If more people enjoyed exercise in the U.S and knew that getting in shape was good, they could take a basic self-defense class and learn how to beat the crap out of someone second they got a knife out. But in the U.S people don't like exercise so they tend to make it easier to use knives.

Oh, for fuck's sake. You've made this silly argument before.

Quote:B. What is the Most used weapon in assault then if knives are second? Bare hands? If they are guns, it doesn't make guns look any better

C.Guns are used a lot more in armed robbery

The point is that knives are deadly weapons and are used in crimes.

Quote:D. I don't want knives to be used outside of the kitchen so there is that as well.

You need to join the real world.

A. So combat where taking a knife is silly? Seeing as it is easy once you get to that level it isn't much silly.

B.I know knives are deadly

C. This is a don't want, not a plan. And still knives are easier to fight back against than guns.

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13-11-2014, 05:32 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(13-11-2014 05:15 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(13-11-2014 05:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  Oh, for fuck's sake. You've made this silly argument before.


The point is that knives are deadly weapons and are used in crimes.


You need to join the real world.

A. So combat where taking a knife is silly? Seeing as it is easy once you get to that level it isn't much silly.

It is not a realistic solution for most people.

Quote:B.I know knives are deadly

C. This is a don't want, not a plan. And still knives are easier to fight back against than guns.

That depends on the distance. If I am within grappling distance, I'd rather be fighting against a firearm, not a knife.

From 21 feet away, a knife isn't worth shit against a gun.

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13-11-2014, 05:53 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(13-11-2014 05:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-11-2014 05:15 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  A. So combat where taking a knife is silly? Seeing as it is easy once you get to that level it isn't much silly.

It is not a realistic solution for most people.

Quote:B.I know knives are deadly

C. This is a don't want, not a plan. And still knives are easier to fight back against than guns.

That depends on the distance. If I am within grappling distance, I'd rather be fighting against a firearm, not a knife.

From 21 feet away, a knife isn't worth shit against a gun.

A.They still teach it, even if someone is going to go there whole lives without it happening they teach it just in case

B.But it easy as easy to go against a knife in grappling distance as a firearm, but firearms are still deadly close and far range, compared to the knife which is only close.

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13-11-2014, 05:59 PM (This post was last modified: 13-11-2014 06:03 PM by Chas.)
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(13-11-2014 05:53 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(13-11-2014 05:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  It is not a realistic solution for most people.


That depends on the distance. If I am within grappling distance, I'd rather be fighting against a firearm, not a knife.

From 21 feet away, a knife isn't worth shit against a gun.

A.They still teach it, even if someone is going to go there whole lives without it happening they teach it just in case

It's a self-defense skill that can be used to disarm regardless of weapon.
It's still not a viable solution for many people

Quote:B.But it easy as easy to go against a knife in grappling distance as a firearm, but firearms are still deadly close and far range, compared to the knife which is only close.

I can grab a gun and prevent it from firing. Not so much with a knife.




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