[split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
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13-11-2014, 06:40 PM (This post was last modified: 13-11-2014 07:03 PM by yakherder.)
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
Edit: Can't get the link to work so nm. I'll mess with it later my phone is frustrating me.

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13-11-2014, 06:58 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
I've been keeping out of the conversation because I'm not very well informed and because guns in general scare the bejesus out of me so I can't really be objective. (As do other things that I've got no problem with other people owning so I'm not game to advocate for banning guns on that account.)

But the constitution of America has been brought up a couple of times and this has been touched upon but I'm not sure it was addressed: Doesn't the constitution specify the ownership of guns by a peoples militia rather than individuals? Some kind of semi-formal organization somewhere between the Neighborhood Watch and the Texas boarder control "shoot the spics" people? (To use the least flattering example. I just can't think of another.)

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13-11-2014, 07:00 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(13-11-2014 06:58 PM)Stuffed_Assumption_Meringue Wrote:  I've been keeping out of the conversation because I'm not very well informed and because guns in general scare the bejesus out of me so I can't really be objective. (As do other things that I've got no problem with other people owning so I'm not game to advocate for banning guns on that account.)

But the constitution of America has been brought up a couple of times and this has been touched upon but I'm not sure it was addressed: Doesn't the constitution specify the ownership of guns by a peoples militia rather than individuals? Some kind of semi-formal organization somewhere between the Neighborhood Watch and the Texas boarder control "shoot the spics" people? (To use the least flattering example. I just can't think of another.)

The Supreme Court has ruled that it is an individual right.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
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13-11-2014, 07:07 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
^OK then.

Soulless mutants of muscle and intent. There are billions of us; hardy, smart and dangerous. Shaped by millions of years of death. We are the definitive alpha predator. We build monsters of fire and stone. We bottled the sun. We nailed our god to a stick.

In man's struggle against the world, bet on the man.
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13-11-2014, 07:37 PM
Re: RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(13-11-2014 04:36 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  If more people enjoyed exercise in the U.S and knew that getting in shape was good, they could take a basic self-defense class and learn how to beat the crap out of someone second they got a knife out. But in the U.S people don't like exercise so they tend to make it easier to use knives.

1. You watch too many Jackie Chan movies.
2. Some people have health issues or are elderly.
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13-11-2014, 07:57 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(13-11-2014 04:09 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-11-2014 03:54 PM)Stevil Wrote:  No, I don't agree. Some people will choose not to commit the crime because they may see too much personal risk when they don't have a gun to use.
Some people will choose not to commit a crime when in the heat of the moment they don't have an effective weapon nearby.
You are wrong. Knives are effective weapons and are the second most-used murder weapon and the third most common in armed robbery.
This doesn't address the question of what would happen if guns were removed from society.
Sure some people are killed with knives.
What we don't know is whether all these gun deaths would be directly translated into knive deaths.
From the link you provided it is interesting to see that gun based murders are 5 to 10 times higher than knife based murders.
The question should be:
Why are gun murders much higher than knife murders?
Is it because:
- guns are the preferred murder weapon
- guns are more effective at turning an altercation into a murder. i.e. more effective at killing rather than harming in comparison to knives.

If guns are the preferred murder weapon then the question is
Why the preference to use guns for murder?
is it because:
- guns are more convenient
- guns make the attacker brave and hence more likely to attack
- killers prefer to kill from a distance rather than close up

Of course there are other options too, but just some thoughts here.
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13-11-2014, 10:18 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(13-11-2014 04:13 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(13-11-2014 04:02 PM)wazzel Wrote:  I disagree on your assessment on crimes going away with out guns. I suspect some would, but far from all.
That's an invalid interpretation of my statement.

Lets agree that some crimes would go away, but many would persist.

Of those that persist, in many cases the criminals will have less effective weapons.


(13-11-2014 04:02 PM)wazzel Wrote:  Crimes of passion still happen with other weapons.
In most cases someone gets a few lumps and bruises, which is terrible, but on a different scale from getting a bullet through them.

Sorry. Agree. I never said anything different. I do not agree with your most assessment of crimes of passion. I think there would be some reduction in fatalities. I think people would adapt and grab what they could. How that would actually impact the total is a guess.
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13-11-2014, 11:35 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(13-11-2014 10:18 PM)wazzel Wrote:  I do not agree with your most assessment of crimes of passion.
Do you think most incidents of domestic violence end in murder?

Surely most of the time it is a slap, a punch, a choke, a push or something.
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14-11-2014, 05:10 AM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(13-11-2014 05:59 PM)Chas Wrote:  It's a self-defense skill that can be used to disarm regardless of weapon.
It's still not a viable solution for many people

It is still better safe than sorry, and even if somebody will never get in that situation they can teach it to someone else so that they can know what to do if they get into that situation

(13-11-2014 05:59 PM)Chas Wrote:  I can grab a gun and prevent it from firing. Not so much with a knife.

That is because you grab the arm or wrist, keep in mind the gun only needs a trigger pull for its power, a knife needs the person holding it for power.





(13-11-2014 07:37 PM)KUSA Wrote:  1. You watch too many Jackie Chan movies.
2. Some people have health issues or are elderly.

1. you need to watch more martial arts training videos





2. I can understand, but some don't, many americans are fat because they are really fucking lazy and think of exercise as a cuss word.

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14-11-2014, 06:35 AM
Re: RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(14-11-2014 05:10 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  1. you need to watch more martial arts training videos

I've done better than that. I studied and practiced several martial arts including Judo, Jujitsu (Japanese and Brazilian), Budo Taijutsu, and others. I have taught many classes on these and have given seminars for money on them.

Martial arts are great but they only give you an edge. When faced with multiple attackers your chances of winning diminish. Then factor in loved ones that I need to protect. If I am rolling on the ground with a couple of thugs some other thugs can hurt them.

In addition to the martial arts I am also an expert with guns and have a DD214 to prove it. In the multiple attacker scenario I can take them out with little effort. My loved ones and I go home safe.

With all this said I want to stress that the gun is an absolute last resort. If I can get out of a situation with little to no force then I will.

Quote:2. I can understand, but some don't, many americans are fat because they are really fucking lazy and think of exercise as a cuss word.

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