[split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
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14-11-2014, 01:05 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(14-11-2014 12:51 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-11-2014 12:36 PM)cjlr Wrote:  At close quarters in tight confines - like in a house - it really, really doesn't matter what you're armed with. Initiative wins, period. The advantage of a gun is range, which is negated by the parameters of the scenario.

Distances inside a home can easily be 12 ft. or more - that's not grappling distance, that's gun distance.

Relying on edged weapons is simply not viable for most people.

Relying on firearms isn't either. You either have surprise, or you don't. And at four or five metres you've got one shot before they're in your face regardless.

I don't deny that in a very narrow range of circumstances it'll increase your odds - of course it will! But the same is true of a stick. I think it's really easy to wildly oversell that potential.

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14-11-2014, 01:06 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(14-11-2014 01:00 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(14-11-2014 09:33 AM)wazzel Wrote:  Most do not end in murder, even when a gun is in the house. I do not see where outlawing guns would stop most domestic violence occurrences.
It wouldn't stop domestic violence occurrences. But it would reduce the amount of domestic violence gun deaths. and probably would reduce the amount of domestic violence deaths.
I agree.

Take away something and it will be less likely to kill, can I file that under no-duh. (friendly picking, no insult intended)

Maybe it will reduce the domestic violence deaths and maybe not. I suspect there is the possibility for a slight reduction, but who knows for sure.
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14-11-2014, 01:08 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
I have enjoyed this thread. I am 68 years old and my mother bought me my first pistol when I was 5 years old. [My dad took the Christmas tree outside and we spent most of the day shooting the decorations off it with my new pistol -- a Colt Woodsman .22.] I started hunting at 11 and I went to work for a custom rifle builder when I was 16. I built rifles all through college and law school and today, 45 years later, I still build most of my own rifles. I LOVE GUNS. I have taught handgun shooting, rifle shooting, and self defense for almost 30 years. Today, I something over 100 guns in my "gun room." [My "gun room" is an 8' x 10' concrete room with a steel door and an independent burglar alarm, in the lower level of our house. I also have a loading room where I make my own ammunition.]

I have used guns to put meat, of all kinds of meat, in my freezer and I have used guns to get rid of pests. For example, down at the ranch where I keep horses, coyotes kill the barn cats. When we don't have cats, we get an infestation of mice and when we get mice, we get an infestation of rattlesnakes. I don't want rattlers around my wife, kids, grandson, and horses and I can solve that problem just by killing coyotes. I don't kill all coyotes, only those that come around the barns. Three of the coyotes we have killed in the last two years turned out to be rabid. Rabies is something else I don't want around.

I shoot for relaxation. Disciplined shooting, which I do every week at my gun club, is one of the most relaxing activities ever discovered. I don't often carry a concealed handgun for self defense but I do support it. When I was practicing law and having to go to bad areas of the city to interview witnesses, a gun was a good thing to have. I understand the "learn martial arts" argument and I did that. I was a serious martial arts student when I was in my 20s and I also was a US Army Ranger. I could take care of myself in those days but now I am old, and crippled with arthritis, and even my horse has learned to help me get on him. Kids and old ladies can beat me up. Every once in a while, when I hike the mountains around the ranch, I run into an aggressive bear or mountain lion and it gives me a little security to have a .44 Mag. on my hip.

I have taught many abused women and rape victims to shoot. It is an immense pleasure to watch the fear leave them as they learn to handle a handgun like an expert. [The students at the school where I taught spent 10 hours, over two days, on the range with an instructor hovering over each student. When they finished the course, they were very competent with a handgun and most of them joined gun clubs and continued shooting weekly.]

I am glad to see that there are so many others on this forum who enjoy guns.
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14-11-2014, 01:10 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(14-11-2014 01:03 PM)KidCharlemagne1962 Wrote:  
(14-11-2014 01:01 PM)wazzel Wrote:  Ha, you missed the arms up in celebration dance.

There is a reasonable middle ground that can continue to allow gun ownership while fixing (or at least try to)the problems. Unfortunately the players are on the ends of the debate and any give towards the reasonable middle will cost them votes next election cycle.

Then you and I are of the same mindset!

I agree, but we need to define the problems first. For instance, "assault weapons" aren't a problem that needs solving.

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14-11-2014, 01:11 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(14-11-2014 01:06 PM)wazzel Wrote:  Maybe it will reduce the domestic violence deaths and maybe not. I suspect there is the possibility for a slight reduction, but who knows for sure.

It would definitely reduce the rate of firearm-related injury and death due to accidents.

It all comes down to that balancing act. Each country - each province/state - tries difference leverage.

It's kind of all moot anyway because we can't construct control cases, so the data's never going to be particularly great...

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14-11-2014, 01:11 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
Good that you understand martial arts, but the problem is that you can say guns can be used in self-defense but they are used to kill people more that self-defense, guns offer more negatives than positives. There is no way we can stop school shootings, innocents being slaughtered(on purpose) in war, and keeping major guns weak. Guns=suffering, No guns=a world better in peace.

(14-11-2014 06:35 AM)KUSA Wrote:  Yo mama!

You win that round Dodgy
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14-11-2014, 01:12 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(14-11-2014 01:03 PM)KidCharlemagne1962 Wrote:  
(14-11-2014 01:01 PM)wazzel Wrote:  Ha, you missed the arms up in celebration dance.

There is a reasonable middle ground that can continue to allow gun ownership while fixing (or at least try to)the problems. Unfortunately the players are on the ends of the debate and any give towards the reasonable middle will cost them votes next election cycle.

Then you and I are of the same mindset!
You like dancing with your arms up too?Big Grin

Lots of people do feel more needs to be done, but not taking away the right to own a gun. Rights can be and are regulated. A gun can be dangerous there is no reason to not expect training and licensing requirements along with stiff fines and/or loss of gun ownership privilege for not following the rules. Criminals will still break the law, but it is a start. Reasonable gun owners will see there is some merit to things like this.
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14-11-2014, 01:13 PM (This post was last modified: 14-11-2014 01:16 PM by Chas.)
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(14-11-2014 01:05 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(14-11-2014 12:51 PM)Chas Wrote:  Distances inside a home can easily be 12 ft. or more - that's not grappling distance, that's gun distance.

Relying on edged weapons is simply not viable for most people.

Relying on firearms isn't either. You either have surprise, or you don't. And at four or five metres you've got one shot before they're in your face regardless.

I don't deny that in a very narrow range of circumstances it'll increase your odds - of course it will! But the same is true of a stick. I think it's really easy to wildly oversell that potential.

Multiple assailants. Use your stick on that. Big Grin


Seriously, nothing evens the odds like a firearm.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-11-2014, 01:16 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(14-11-2014 01:11 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(14-11-2014 01:06 PM)wazzel Wrote:  Maybe it will reduce the domestic violence deaths and maybe not. I suspect there is the possibility for a slight reduction, but who knows for sure.

It would definitely reduce the rate of firearm-related injury and death due to accidents.

It all comes down to that balancing act. Each country - each province/state - tries difference leverage.

It's kind of all moot anyway because we can't construct control cases, so the data's never going to be particularly great...

Take away something and it will be less likely to kill, can I file that under no-duh. (friendly picking, no insult intended), reused just because.
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14-11-2014, 01:20 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(14-11-2014 01:11 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Guns=suffering, No guns=a world better in peace.

If it were only that black and white....................
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