[split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
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14-11-2014, 02:00 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(14-11-2014 01:43 PM)KUSA Wrote:  
(14-11-2014 01:11 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Good that you understand martial arts, but the problem is that you can say guns can be used in self-defense but they are used to kill people more that self-defense, guns offer more negatives than positives. There is no way we can stop school shootings, innocents being slaughtered(on purpose) in war, and keeping major guns weak. Guns=suffering, No guns=a world better in peace.

From my perspective guns offer more positives than negatives. You see I don't participate in school shootings or other nefarious activities.

However I do understand that some people do participate in such nefarious activities. But for me to give up my guns because of what they do is kind of like me getting a vasectomy because I think the next door neighbor has too many kids.

That is the thing, if you take guns away from them, they will still find a way to get guns. If some one who was reponsable with guns was killed and had his guns stolen, and the theif went on a killing spree, would mean if guns are around, killers will still find a way to get guns. And also how do you stop those people? You just let them run free or do we get rid of what makes them strong.

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14-11-2014, 02:02 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(14-11-2014 01:29 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(14-11-2014 01:13 PM)Chas Wrote:  Multiple assailants. Use your stick on that. Big Grin

If you're facing multiple competent assailants you're probably fucked regardless. If they're armed with guns, somewhat obviously so. If they're not, you can train and fire in one direction but the guy(s) in the other direction won't be standing still...

I can fire 1+ aimed shot per second from a pistol. At 25 feet, those are all within an 8" circle. Those are all likely fatal shots.

I can fire shots in the right direction much faster than that, and that may be plenty good enough. Those only have to disable or scare away the attackers.

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14-11-2014, 02:06 PM
Re: RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(14-11-2014 02:00 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(14-11-2014 01:43 PM)KUSA Wrote:  From my perspective guns offer more positives than negatives. You see I don't participate in school shootings or other nefarious activities.

However I do understand that some people do participate in such nefarious activities. But for me to give up my guns because of what they do is kind of like me getting a vasectomy because I think the next door neighbor has too many kids.

That is the thing, if you take guns away from them, they will still find a way to get guns. If some one who was reponsable with guns was killed and had his guns stolen, and the theif went on a killing spree, would mean if guns are around, killers will still find a way to get guns. And also how do you stop those people? You just let them run free or do we get rid of what makes them strong.

We need to focus on getting rid of the people that go on killing sprees. If I catch one in the act I will be happy to pop his mentally deranged brains out.
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14-11-2014, 02:08 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(14-11-2014 02:00 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(14-11-2014 01:43 PM)KUSA Wrote:  From my perspective guns offer more positives than negatives. You see I don't participate in school shootings or other nefarious activities.

However I do understand that some people do participate in such nefarious activities. But for me to give up my guns because of what they do is kind of like me getting a vasectomy because I think the next door neighbor has too many kids.

That is the thing, if you take guns away from them, they will still find a way to get guns. If some one who was reponsable with guns was killed and had his guns stolen, and the theif went on a killing spree, would mean if guns are around, killers will still find a way to get guns. And also how do you stop those people? You just let them run free or do we get rid of what makes them strong.

There are more than 300,000,000 firearms in civilian hands in the U.S. There is no way short of draconian laws and house-to-house search by armed confiscation teams to get them.
And unless you intend to disarm law enforcement and the military once they're done confiscating civilian-owned guns, there will still be guns.

So, unless you have a proposal, you are just being tediously repetitious.

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14-11-2014, 02:27 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(14-11-2014 02:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-11-2014 01:29 PM)cjlr Wrote:  If you're facing multiple competent assailants you're probably fucked regardless. If they're armed with guns, somewhat obviously so. If they're not, you can train and fire in one direction but the guy(s) in the other direction won't be standing still...

I can fire 1+ aimed shot per second from a pistol. At 25 feet, those are all within an 8" circle. Those are all likely fatal shots.

On moving targets in a 360-degree range? In the dark? In conditions you haven't set and controlled for yourself?

(14-11-2014 02:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  I can fire shots in the right direction much faster than that, and that may be plenty good enough. Those only have to disable or scare away the attackers.

Sure. That's where it matters what the actual situation is.

If it's incidental or opportunistic, yes, you just need to discourage people. Having any weapon at all will tell people they're not getting you without getting hurt, and even a warning shot or just showing you're carrying a gun can be that difference.

If it's specifically you our action movie henchmen are after - you're fucked anyway.
(unless you really are in an action movie, and you're not three days from retirement)

If the question is, "are firearms useful for self-defence", then the answer is obviously "yes". But the relevant answer for setting policy is "yes, and?"

As I said, it's theoretically possible to weigh the possible effect on personal safety against the possible effect on escalating domestic situations and rates of accidental injury or death. But without control groups we can only really compare different jurisdictions to each other, and what makes a reasonable social compromise is going to vary anyway.
(I'd call it a moral question, but I'd hate to put stevil into apoplexy)

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14-11-2014, 02:28 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(14-11-2014 02:06 PM)KUSA Wrote:  
(14-11-2014 02:00 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  That is the thing, if you take guns away from them, they will still find a way to get guns. If some one who was reponsable with guns was killed and had his guns stolen, and the theif went on a killing spree, would mean if guns are around, killers will still find a way to get guns. And also how do you stop those people? You just let them run free or do we get rid of what makes them strong.

We need to focus on getting rid of the people that go on killing sprees. If I catch one in the act I will be happy to pop his mentally deranged brains out.

So killing is the best thing to do? Death should never be an answer, and who is to say he does not have a group of people killing. In fact and who is to know how to get rid of these people? For all you know the person you work with may be planning to shoot a place up. You can't get rid of psyhcos, but you can guns.

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14-11-2014, 02:38 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(14-11-2014 02:28 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(14-11-2014 02:06 PM)KUSA Wrote:  We need to focus on getting rid of the people that go on killing sprees. If I catch one in the act I will be happy to pop his mentally deranged brains out.

So killing is the best thing to do? Death should never be an answer, and who is to say he does not have a group of people killing. In fact and who is to know how to get rid of these people? For all you know the person you work with may be planning to shoot a place up. You can't get rid of psyhcos, but you can guns.

Unless you can take every single gun out of the population at one moment passing laws to disarm the people that follow the law is not going to do much good. I suspect if you are in a high crime area crime will go up since criminals will know the average joe is unarmed. If you are in a low crime area I suspect not much would change.
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14-11-2014, 02:52 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(14-11-2014 02:38 PM)wazzel Wrote:  
(14-11-2014 02:28 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  So killing is the best thing to do? Death should never be an answer, and who is to say he does not have a group of people killing. In fact and who is to know how to get rid of these people? For all you know the person you work with may be planning to shoot a place up. You can't get rid of psyhcos, but you can guns.

Unless you can take every single gun out of the population at one moment passing laws to disarm the people that follow the law is not going to do much good. I suspect if you are in a high crime area crime will go up since criminals will know the average joe is unarmed. If you are in a low crime area I suspect not much would change.

Keep in mind in dangerous areas many of those people are weak without there guns. In a crime ridden city, a small feeble man with a gun can take something from a large powerful man with no gun. Take away guns and that feeble man won't think about taking on anyone. Keep in mind robbers and murders do want to leave the area without being injured.

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14-11-2014, 02:59 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(14-11-2014 02:52 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(14-11-2014 02:38 PM)wazzel Wrote:  Unless you can take every single gun out of the population at one moment passing laws to disarm the people that follow the law is not going to do much good. I suspect if you are in a high crime area crime will go up since criminals will know the average joe is unarmed. If you are in a low crime area I suspect not much would change.

Keep in mind in dangerous areas many of those people are weak without there guns. In a crime ridden city, a small feeble man with a gun can take something from a large powerful man with no gun. Take away guns and that feeble man won't think about taking on anyone. Keep in mind robbers and murders do want to leave the area without being injured.

Let us grant all that you've said.

How, then, do you take away all guns? That does not seem possible, to me, under any remotely plausible conditions...

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14-11-2014, 03:02 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(14-11-2014 02:59 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(14-11-2014 02:52 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Keep in mind in dangerous areas many of those people are weak without there guns. In a crime ridden city, a small feeble man with a gun can take something from a large powerful man with no gun. Take away guns and that feeble man won't think about taking on anyone. Keep in mind robbers and murders do want to leave the area without being injured.

Let us grant all that you've said.

How, then, do you take away all guns? That does not seem possible, to me, under any remotely plausible conditions...

That I don't know that yet, though force would be an option, or by law make people get rid of there guns.

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