[split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
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17-11-2014, 08:07 AM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
A bolt action does have the potential to be more accurate, but it's not really noticeable unless you're taking ridiculous shots.

I don't hunt anymore, though. The only reason I own guns is for people, and it would more than likely be indoors or mid range.

I'm not gonna try to catch back up with the whole conversation, I fell way too far behind Tongue. But the points regarding hunting practicality are merely interesting discussion points, as the intent behind the right had nothing to do with hunting. Even home defense from random criminals is secondary.

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17-11-2014, 09:21 AM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(17-11-2014 08:07 AM)yakherder Wrote:  A bolt action does have the potential to be more accurate, but it's not really noticeable unless you're taking ridiculous shots.

I don't hunt anymore, though. The only reason I own guns is for people, and it would more than likely be indoors or mid range.

I'm not gonna try to catch back up with the whole conversation, I fell way too far behind Tongue. But the points regarding hunting practicality are merely interesting discussion points, as the intent behind the right had nothing to do with hunting. Even home defense from random criminals is secondary.

Yabut, this isn't a Second Amendment discussion. No

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17-11-2014, 09:26 AM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(17-11-2014 01:49 AM)Stevil Wrote:  
(16-11-2014 04:47 PM)Chas Wrote:  When a deer is fatally shot, it doesn't necessarily drop in its tracks; follow-up shots are sometimes necessary to prevent it running and to effect a quicker, more humane kill.
Sure, I'd think a bolt action would be sufficient in most cases. 1 second to chamber a fresh round isn't that much of a hunting issue.

In a war that 1 second is a big issue because it allows your opponent to take aim on you. But hunting an unarmed deer, it's not a problem.

You still haven't made a case. You have stated your opinions on what is or is not 'sufficient' without supporting them or defining 'sufficient', nor have you explained why 'sufficient' is more desirable than 'optimal'.

If you think an AR-15 is not appropriate as a hunting rifle, please explain precisely how and why.

Here are two rifles. The top one is not an AR-15, the bottom one is. Is the top one an appropriate hunting rifle?

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17-11-2014, 12:20 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(17-11-2014 09:26 AM)Chas Wrote:  You still haven't made a case. You have stated your opinions on what is or is not 'sufficient' without supporting them or defining 'sufficient', nor have you explained why 'sufficient' is more desirable than 'optimal'.
Obviously my viewpoint is about public safety.
I've been saying that easily to conceal weapons are a threat and rapid fire weapons are a threat.

In my view a bolt action is sufficient for hunting, because the animals aren't shooting back, therefore the time needed to chamber a round is not life threatening to you. Nor is it essential for killing the animal, you aren't trying to perform a massacre, you are trying to kill one animal. Stalking a deer takes time and patience and you get one shot to kill or maim it, then maybe need another to kill it, if only maimed it with the first.

Many people go hunting without semi-automatics. It is sufficient.


(17-11-2014 09:26 AM)Chas Wrote:  If you think an AR-15 is not appropriate as a hunting rifle, please explain precisely how and why.
An AR-15 is overkill because it is a semi-automatic and it has potential for very large magazine. It would be more effective for a mass human killing than a bolt action rifle.

(17-11-2014 09:26 AM)Chas Wrote:  Here are two rifles. The top one is not an AR-15, the bottom one is. Is the top one an appropriate hunting rifle?
Depends what you are hunting?
Depends on the capabilities of the guns. I can't tell much from the photos.
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17-11-2014, 12:27 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(17-11-2014 07:50 AM)wazzel Wrote:  Double barrels suck for duck hunting. While adequate, not as useful as a pump or semi-auto. In the US shotguns for migratory water foul must have a limited capacity of 3 shells. 1 chambered and 2 in the magazine.
If you are no good with a double barreled shot gun then use a pump action with capacity for 3 or less rounds. I more interested in the amount of rounds than the actual configuration of the barrel. I only mentioned double barrel because that is what I have used. I haven't used a pump action shotgun.

(17-11-2014 07:50 AM)wazzel Wrote:  A person could do as much damage with a semi-auto hunting rifle as an AR-15.
When shooting at people there is an advantage in having a semi-automatic.
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17-11-2014, 12:33 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(17-11-2014 07:25 AM)yakherder Wrote:  It isn't so much the time between shots that is the problem, it's the additional movement while trying to keep your target lined up. If you're hunting and trying to take a shot at something 300 to 500 yards away, having semi, not to mention the lower caliber, less powerful rounds typically used in assault rifles, makes it easier to stay steady.
And that's the point.

When considering that a gun can be used for both hunting and massacring humans. It is better to have a gun that is slow to reload and causes the shooter to loose aim while reloading.

This may help police to get a shot in, and it may give a person/s some time to duck for cover.
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17-11-2014, 03:37 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(17-11-2014 12:20 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(17-11-2014 09:26 AM)Chas Wrote:  You still haven't made a case. You have stated your opinions on what is or is not 'sufficient' without supporting them or defining 'sufficient', nor have you explained why 'sufficient' is more desirable than 'optimal'.
Obviously my viewpoint is about public safety.
I've been saying that easily to conceal weapons are a threat and rapid fire weapons are a threat.

Is it your position that civilians should not be allowed to possess handguns nor semi-automatic rifles and shotguns?

Quote:In my view a bolt action is sufficient for hunting, because the animals aren't shooting back, therefore the time needed to chamber a round is not life threatening to you. Nor is it essential for killing the animal, you aren't trying to perform a massacre, you are trying to kill one animal. Stalking a deer takes time and patience and you get one shot to kill or maim it, then maybe need another to kill it, if only maimed it with the first.

Many people go hunting without semi-automatics. It is sufficient.

A gas-operated semi-automatic rifle has less recoil than any other type of rifle.

A semi-automatic allows for a faster follow-up shot in the event of a miss.

A semi-automatic shotgun is the best choice for game bird and waterfowl hunting since the birds are flying.

Quote:
(17-11-2014 09:26 AM)Chas Wrote:  If you think an AR-15 is not appropriate as a hunting rifle, please explain precisely how and why.
An AR-15 is overkill because it is a semi-automatic and it has potential for very large magazine. It would be more effective for a mass human killing than a bolt action rifle.

You still have not made any argument as to why an AR-15 is not a good hunting rifle. As I pointed out, there are magazine size limits for hunting, so 'big magazine' is not an argument.

Quote:
(17-11-2014 09:26 AM)Chas Wrote:  Here are two rifles. The top one is not an AR-15, the bottom one is. Is the top one an appropriate hunting rifle?
Depends what you are hunting?
Depends on the capabilities of the guns. I can't tell much from the photos.

Coyotes.
The top one is a semi-automatic rifle in .223 Rem. with a five-round magazine.

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17-11-2014, 03:41 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(17-11-2014 12:33 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(17-11-2014 07:25 AM)yakherder Wrote:  It isn't so much the time between shots that is the problem, it's the additional movement while trying to keep your target lined up. If you're hunting and trying to take a shot at something 300 to 500 yards away, having semi, not to mention the lower caliber, less powerful rounds typically used in assault rifles, makes it easier to stay steady.
And that's the point.

When considering that a gun can be used for both hunting and massacring humans. It is better to have a gun that is slow to reload and causes the shooter to loose aim while reloading.

This may help police to get a shot in, and it may give a person/s some time to duck for cover.

You continue to ignore the fact that semi-automatic rifles are rarely used in the commission of any crimes. They've been used in only 2 school shootings in the U.S., I believe. The overwhelming majority have been committed with handguns.

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17-11-2014, 05:53 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(17-11-2014 03:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  Is it your position that civilians should not be allowed to possess handguns nor semi-automatic rifles and shotguns?
I'm not against all shotguns, they are useful for duck, pheasant, magpies.

(17-11-2014 03:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  A gas-operated semi-automatic rifle has less recoil than any other type of rifle.

A semi-automatic allows for a faster follow-up shot in the event of a miss.

A semi-automatic shotgun is the best choice for game bird and waterfowl hunting since the birds are flying.
I understand you are pointing out the benefits of a semi automatic with regards to hunting.
Perhaps there are advantages. I just think a person can successfully hunt without semi-automatic. A concession in support of reduction of human massacres.
I think when shooting at birds you may have an opportunity for two or three shots, I'm not against shotguns that can hold two or three shots in a semi-automatic fashion, e.g. double barreled shotgun.


(17-11-2014 03:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  You still have not made any argument as to why an AR-15 is not a good hunting rifle. As I pointed out, there are magazine size limits for hunting, so 'big magazine' is not an argument.
But they can be loaded with a large magazine.
There are many guns that don't use detachable magazines or have a limited capacity.

(17-11-2014 03:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  Coyotes.
The top one is a semi-automatic rifle in .223 Rem. with a five-round magazine.
I'm unsure.
Can the rifle have a larger magazine fitted?
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17-11-2014, 05:55 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(17-11-2014 03:41 PM)Chas Wrote:  You continue to ignore the fact that semi-automatic rifles are rarely used in the commission of any crimes. They've been used in only 2 school shootings in the U.S., I believe. The overwhelming majority have been committed with handguns.
OK, this is a fair enough point.
I'll do some research on this.
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