[split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
11-11-2014, 03:32 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(11-11-2014 02:11 AM)yakherder Wrote:  And here's a reality fact that supersedes any statistic.

If I have guns and choose not to give them up there is nothing you can do about it Tongue. So long as I hold the leverage, I don't have to debate my rights to keep them. That's why this one, in particular, is so important. Losing it would result in a shit storm, and the unarmed would not come out ahead in that storm.

Hold up: a shitstorm? The hell kinda shitstorm would develop from that that would cause 'the unarmed to come out behind.'
What exactly do you expect to happen if people got their guns taken, or hell, just restricted? An explosion of crime? Armed revolts? Anarchy?

(11-11-2014 09:18 AM)yakherder Wrote:  I'm happy to sit back and give Kumbaya a chance. But if someone tries to disarm me in a world that is inherently hostile, I will consider it an act of war. Therefore, if one desires peace, they should keep that in mind in their dealings with me and others like me.

An act of war.

I'm sorry, but what?!

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-11-2014, 04:09 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(11-11-2014 03:32 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(11-11-2014 02:11 AM)yakherder Wrote:  And here's a reality fact that supersedes any statistic.

If I have guns and choose not to give them up there is nothing you can do about it Tongue. So long as I hold the leverage, I don't have to debate my rights to keep them. That's why this one, in particular, is so important. Losing it would result in a shit storm, and the unarmed would not come out ahead in that storm.

Hold up: a shitstorm? The hell kinda shitstorm would develop from that that would cause 'the unarmed to come out behind.'
What exactly do you expect to happen if people got their guns taken, or hell, just restricted? An explosion of crime? Armed revolts? Anarchy?

(11-11-2014 09:18 AM)yakherder Wrote:  I'm happy to sit back and give Kumbaya a chance. But if someone tries to disarm me in a world that is inherently hostile, I will consider it an act of war. Therefore, if one desires peace, they should keep that in mind in their dealings with me and others like me.

An act of war.

I'm sorry, but what?!

Matt.....america, remember that.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-11-2014, 04:12 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(11-11-2014 04:09 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  
(11-11-2014 03:32 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Hold up: a shitstorm? The hell kinda shitstorm would develop from that that would cause 'the unarmed to come out behind.'
What exactly do you expect to happen if people got their guns taken, or hell, just restricted? An explosion of crime? Armed revolts? Anarchy?


An act of war.

I'm sorry, but what?!

Matt.....america, remember that.

and to answer if you take they guns there will be a storm of tears, but that is about it.

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-11-2014, 04:16 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(11-11-2014 04:09 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  
(11-11-2014 03:32 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  Hold up: a shitstorm? The hell kinda shitstorm would develop from that that would cause 'the unarmed to come out behind.'
What exactly do you expect to happen if people got their guns taken, or hell, just restricted? An explosion of crime? Armed revolts? Anarchy?


An act of war.

I'm sorry, but what?!

Matt.....america, remember that.

That wont stop me from wanting to understand it.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-11-2014, 04:50 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(11-11-2014 03:24 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  No you can, and that is to make sure nobody has a gun, whether it be soldier, cop or citizen.
Absolutely impossible. That's like saying it's easy to not get wet, just get rid of rain. You can get a gun in any country in the world, with relative ease, whether it's legal or not, and it's about to get a whole lot easier. With the rapid advance of 3d printing technologies, gun control will soon be a matter controlled by the internet police, as getting a semi auto carbine will be as simple as getting the file for it and hitting print. As it stands right now, there is a lucrative trade both legal and illegal that, much like with the drug wars, can't be stopped. The simple fact is that if there is a demand for something that is relatively easy to produce, someone will produce it. The only way you'll ever get rid of guns is when something more deadly replaces them, at which point they will, much like sword fighting, transform into a hobby, with the exception of incidences like the one I'll bring up shortly.

Quote:You see, people are so busy trying to keep there guns that they don't seem to notice that many lives get taken from people using them.
I am very much aware of how many people get killed with guns. My job is to kill people with guns who are trying to kill me with guns. Survival is dependent not on disarming yourself to make it easy for them, but in making sure they know very well that you are a bigger threat than they are. Ultimately, they may win regardless. Such is life.

Quote:Swords just the same, but it is harder to conceal a sword than a gun, and they are harder to come around,
The Rwandan genocide occurred after the Rwandan government ordered $750,000 worth of machetes from China, which the Hutu used to kill nearly a million people.

Quote:and bare hands, when was the last time you say some school lose the lives of people because of some one who killed them with mauy thai? When was the last time a capoerist was able to use his martial art to kill people at his job? Last time I heard a capoeirst kill anyone it was the slave masters with there own guns.
There's a documentary called One Punch Homicide that addresses this question quite effectively, though it's a bit pricey for someone with only a passing interest or no real interest on the topic, so I'll just give a simple answer. Yes, people are killed not only in unarmed fights, but with single punches, on a regular basis.

Quote:You see you can fight back, but most americans think they only way to defend them selves is with a gun, expecting that someone will get them with a gun. I heard a saying that if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns, but then I thought, if you make sure guns are not around anymore, than no one will have guns. If you want to retaliate take a martial arts class, much better for you, and a lot of less people die from it, and this is period,
Contrary to what you may have seen in movies, the greatest martial arts master in the world is no match for even a novice marksman with a gun and the intent to use it. In close quarters combat with someone who has never actually shot someone and is thus likely to hesitate momentarily, you may have a chance. But it's a slim one.

Quote:I am not counting whether accidents or not. And I don't have to worry about people attacking without guns because the in the U.S exercise is a cuss word, and the action is pretty much taboo to most people,
I can't disagree with you there, that is indeed true for most people. But not all people. Those who have a desire to engage in violence tend to prepare themselves to do so. Not everyone here fits the couch potato stereotype. Only about half lol..

Quote:in nihon violence is not a big problem there, hell the worst crimes seems to be getting you bike stolen, and that is in poor spots.
That has more to do with the Japanese sense of community than because of reduced access to guns. It is, in that regards, more of a sociological issue. If you want an example of what happens when otherwise non violent people are placed into different circumstances, then do some research on the Nanjing Massacre/Rape of Nanking. I know the Japanese education system tends to gloss over this little tidbit of WWII history. And regardless of what you choose to do in regards to your own defense, are you aware of the fact that Japan has, in recent years, been making moves to strengthen its military and even initiate a nuclear weapons program? Smart move, because the U.S. can't watch your back forever, and China and Korea still hold a grudge for the previously mentioned massacre. My (Chinese) ex-wife's grandmother, who lived in Yancheng but was in Nanjing (the capital of the province) during World War II, was kind enough to show me the bayonet wound in her abdomen. I'm not criticizing Japan in any way. This is human nature, and is not isolated to any specific country or culture. That said, you may want to brush up on your history before playing the "we aren't violent like you guys" card.

Quote:We need to learn guns are useless, only thing they do is hurt people, for every school shot, for every kid who shoots them selves by accident, or worst there family, because they found a gun even if well secured and hidden, and gangs that shoot people because they look funny. Guns only serve one thing, to help kill our own species for horrible reasons. And don't try war either because we can use better ways to solve problems.
Arguable. I grew up hunting long before I had any notion to kill a human. But that's a different conversation. We can indeed use different ways to solve problems., but we won't. Again, it goes back to the "we wouldn't get wet if it would stop raining" thing. Doesn't matter, because it's not gonna stop, so you'd better grab an umbrella.

'Murican Canadian
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 7 users Like yakherder's post
11-11-2014, 05:03 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
Quote:I'm sorry, but what?!

Perhaps I was a bit over dramatic, so let me expand on this and put it into less emotionally charged words.

I am in the unique position of spending most of my time in Canada, where I live and work. As I chose to come here, I play by their rules. I have a restricted firearms permit, and I keep my firearms locked up separately from the ammunition as is prescribed by the law which, unlike the United States, does not have a constitution which mentions the right to bear arms. I chose to come to their house, I'll play by their rules.

Back in the U.S., where I still serve as a U.S. Army cavalry scout, I just about have an arsenal. In the event that someone tries to take those things which I recognize as being important for my survival in a shtf scenario, I will if necessary respond with deadly force to protect those things, regardless of how the laws change. I'm not unreasonable, but I have lines that won't be crossed. That said, many of the police officers I know refuse to enforce federal firearms regulations they don't agree with. The next up as far as people who would be called upon to do it in their place would be... me, and I would readily turn down that order, as would pretty much everyone else in my unit.

'Murican Canadian
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like yakherder's post
11-11-2014, 05:26 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(11-11-2014 03:32 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  The hell kinda shitstorm would develop from that that would cause 'the unarmed to come out behind.'
What exactly do you expect to happen if people got their guns taken, or hell, just restricted? An explosion of crime? Armed revolts? Anarchy?

I'll give you a relevant example. A bunch of well intentioned people start protesting and engaging in peaceful civil disobedience in an attempt grab the attention of a government they feel is treating them unfairly. It pays them no attention, so they up their efforts in an attempt to overthrow the current leadership. The leadership either

A: Responds with deadly force against them (see Syria), and in the ensuing power vacuum all the crazies come out of the woodwork to take advantage of the government's weakened state. Now you've got 98% of the country that just want to live a normal, relatively secular life, cowering in their homes with their roles in the conflict no longer relevant, and the various armed groups that, though they make up the minority of the population, are the ones who are armed. Right now, we're watching multiple groups of combatants including but not limited to government forces, moderates, and not so moderates vying for control. Whatever the outcome, rest assured the unarmed majority will have absolutely no say in it.

B: becomes ousted (see Ukraine), at which point it pretty much proceeds just like it has been in Syria, except with the government forces weakened due to lack of leadership, a much more powerful adversary trying to fill that vacuum, the various complacent international organizations who only somewhat represent their interests trying to decide whether or not and how much they should interfere, and (surprise) the Tatars, yet another group of Muslim extremists, threatening Jihad in Crimea in the midst of the ensuing power vacuum.

Now... Lets assume for a second that one of the various illegally armed groups within the U.S., or even Mexico or South America which, between the two, contain every single one of the 10 most violent cities in the world, ever realize how lacking in its ability to defend itself from internal attack the U.S. really is. Do you ever wonder why the government always seems to overreact in situations like Occupy Wallstreet or the Ferguson riots? It may seem irrational when viewing from inside that bubble I've mentioned a few times. But what they realize that most of you don't is how close any country is, anywhere in the world, at any time, to collapsing into a power vacuum much like the ones we're seeing in multiple parts of the world right now. I'm not saying we will in the near future. But if and when we do, I want to make damn sure whoever comes out ahead in that power vacuum is someone I'd readily call an ally, as opposed to, say, the Sinaloa Cartel or MS13. Regardless, in such a hopefully unlikely scenario, you can rest assured the non combatant majority will be huddled in their homes hoping whoever comes out ahead is kind enough not to rape and murder them.

'Murican Canadian
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like yakherder's post
11-11-2014, 05:46 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(11-11-2014 05:26 PM)yakherder Wrote:  Now... Lets assume for a second that one of the various illegally armed groups within the U.S., or even Mexico or South America which, between the two, contain every single one of the 10 most violent cities in the world, ever realize how lacking in its ability to defend itself from internal attack the U.S. really is.

... we'd have a bad 80s action movie on our hands?
(ooh! does it say Steven Seagal is on the poster?)

"Most violent cities" explicitly excluding warzones, perhaps, out of those for which reliable data was available, which would exclude most of Africa or Asia...

(11-11-2014 05:26 PM)yakherder Wrote:  Do you ever wonder why the government always seems to overreact in situations like Occupy Wallstreet or the Ferguson riots? It may seem irrational when viewing from inside that bubble I've mentioned a few times. But what they realize that most of you don't is how close any country is, anywhere in the world, at any time, to collapsing into a power vacuum much like the ones we're seeing in multiple parts of the world right now. I'm not saying we will in the near future. But if and when we do, I want to make damn sure whoever comes out ahead in that power vacuum is someone I'd readily call an ally, as opposed to, say, the Sinaloa Cartel or MS13. Regardless, in such a hopefully unlikely scenario, you can rest assured the non combatant majority will be huddled in their homes hoping whoever comes out ahead is kind enough not to rape and murder them.

I don't think civilian small arms are particularly effective against APCs and rocket artillery.

Even fantasising about such scenarios is pointless. Someone else will either have more guns or more friends or both.

... this is my signature!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-11-2014, 06:01 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
Don't think "Oh, that can't happen here!" Wrong, it already has on smaller scales.

New Orleans in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, Montreal during its police strike, race riots in multiple U.S. cities, looting and violence during widespread power outages have all occurred.

There are many Shit Hits The Fan scenarios with natural disaster and/or infrastructure breakdown being the most likely. While 15,000 troops were sent to Quebec and New Brunswick in the aftermath of the '98 Great Ice Storm to keep order, effect rescue, provide aid, there aren't enough military, law enforcement, or aid workers to cover a widespread breakdown or order.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Chas's post
11-11-2014, 06:18 PM
RE: [split] Firearm Education Thread (lots of pics)
(11-11-2014 05:46 PM)cjlr Wrote:  ... we'd have a bad 80s action movie on our hands?
(ooh! does it say Steven Seagal is on the poster?)
Nah he was still busy doing his sheriff deputy reality TV show or pretending to train UFC fighters or something, last I checked.

Quote:"Most violent cities" explicitly excluding warzones, perhaps, out of those for which reliable data was available, which would exclude most of Africa or Asia...
The highest reported murder rates, then. Either way, things are bad and the fact that we've essentially militarized our southern border guards in the last 10 years is not just a movie.

Quote:I don't think civilian small arms are particularly effective against APCs and rocket artillery.
A common misconception, in a sense. To state the obvious, vehicles do not operate themselves. They are operated by squishy people and limited by their fueling and maintenance needs. They are only useful when you have a base of operations to return them to after a mission and a predictable supply of resources to keep them running, and that base of operations is extremely vulnerable in guerrilla style warfare where front lines are absent and/or undefined, as are the convoys required to keep them running, many of which are in fact vulnerable to small arms fire and, as we've discovered in recent years, homemade explosives. The more obvious answer to the threat of advanced equipment is to commandeer and use it for yourself. See ISIS.

If you're actually interested in the subject of overcoming over-modern military forces with less sophisticated equipment through the use of insurgent/guerrilla tactics, or even just understanding why we're so vulnerable to it, I suggest Tactics of the Crescent Moon Militant Muslim Combat Methods.

You'd be surprised what two or three well placed marksmen could potentially do to an airfield when you take into consideration that the pilots have to step out the door to get into their planes.

Quote:Even fantasising about such scenarios is pointless. Someone else will either have more guns or more friends or both.
I'm not talking about throwing my guns in a backpack and taking on insurgencies by myself. I'm talking about organized action with others like me. And yes, getting killed is always a possibility. Nothing we conclude here can change that. Rest assured, however, that the second shit hits the fan and I conclude that an internal conflict is likely, I'm going for the big guns, and my small guns might be an important factor in making that happen. Call it fantasizing if you wish. Dealing with violent criminals and combatants in some form or another has been my reality for most of my adult life. My paranoia is not baseless.

'Murican Canadian
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like yakherder's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: