[split] First time drug experience
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25-02-2014, 05:03 PM
RE: [split] First time drug experience
(25-02-2014 04:57 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-02-2014 02:49 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Why don't you go drink a couple of bottles of your wino wine and calm down, bitch?

Jesus H. hula-hooping Christ, Taq - tone it down, will ya? Your over-the-top aggressive style is not constructive.

I answered her irrelevant ad hominem swipe with its equal. The lesson was indeed lost on her, though.

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25-02-2014, 05:05 PM (This post was last modified: 25-02-2014 05:17 PM by Cathym112.)
RE: [split] First time drug experience
(25-02-2014 04:49 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-02-2014 01:47 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  What the fuck is wrong with you TM?

Why are you getting your nose bent out of joint because I don't like drug users?

To me, the only people that defend or justify drug use as being beneficial or not having negative effects to those around them, are the ones that are doing the drugs.

Seems like I'm not the one with confirmation bias. You defend the drug because you use the drug. Big surprise there. I don't understand why you don't see that accusing me of my own biases means that you are immune to them as well. Facepalm

You are completely ignoring the beneficial effects and medical uses of alcohol and marijuana, not to mention narcotic pain-killers.

I tested positive for narcotics once because I had taken a prescription pain medication the day before. You would fire me?

Chas. No where did I say that recreational drug use was even remotely analogous to prescribed medical use. Thats not fair at all.

Further, the benefits of alcohol is limited use, and for only certain kinds of alcohol (i.e., red wine). Alcoholics are not healthy and in fact, excessive alcohol consumption is deadly.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsou...ull-story/

You can't argue that excessive alcohol and drug intake is good for your health. If anyone is going to say otherwise, I'll need your sources.

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25-02-2014, 05:07 PM
RE: [split] First time drug experience
(25-02-2014 05:00 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-02-2014 03:00 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  I guess you really didn't read that carefully did you.

But drug testing doesn't tell you that. It is insufficient evidence.

correct. And when I confronted you about it, you would have to supply me with a note from your doctor. Then, your job function would be reassigned as you cannot operate under the influence of a psychoactive drug.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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25-02-2014, 05:14 PM
RE: [split] First time drug experience
(25-02-2014 04:42 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(25-02-2014 04:39 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, Cathy, you have seen what drug use may do to people.

You are generalizing on minimal information. This is not reasonable.

Do you drink alcohol?

Yes. I drink alcohol. 1-2 glasses a week. I am aware that it is a drug. I don't condone the occasional use of drugs, per say. I'm saying that the habitual use of any drugs has more chances of being hazardous to your health and overall wellbeing than any benefits it could provide.

Did you mean to say "I don't condone condemn the occasional use of drugs"?

* per se Drinking Beverage

Quote:Are you saying that occasional heroin use is the same as occasional alcohol consumption? Thats just dumb.

No, I didn't say that. I will say that the use of narcotic pain medication for chronic pain management is not dumb, it is medically indicated.
And drug testing won't tell the difference between that and recreational use.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-02-2014, 05:21 PM
RE: [split] First time drug experience
Taq... Seriously, it's exhausting.. Normal conversation please?



I hope that the world turns, and things get better. But what I hope most of all is that you understand what I mean when I tell you that, even though I do not know you, and even though I may never meet you, laugh with you, cry with you, or kiss you, I love you. With all my heart, I love you. - V for Vendetta
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25-02-2014, 05:22 PM
RE: [split] First time drug experience
(25-02-2014 05:14 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-02-2014 04:42 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Yes. I drink alcohol. 1-2 glasses a week. I am aware that it is a drug. I don't condone the occasional use of drugs, per say. I'm saying that the habitual use of any drugs has more chances of being hazardous to your health and overall wellbeing than any benefits it could provide.

Did you mean to say "I don't condone condemn the occasional use of drugs"?

like I said 4 posts ago....
(25-02-2014 04:47 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  I meant condemn! Like you never misspoke.  Dodgy


Quote:Are you saying that occasional heroin use is the same as occasional alcohol consumption? Thats just dumb.
Quote:No, I didn't say that. I will say that the use of narcotic pain medication for chronic pain management is not dumb, it is medically indicated.
And drug testing won't tell the difference between that and recreational use.

I never said it would tell the difference, nor did I say anything about prescribed narcotic medication for pain management. Again, you are being considerably unfair.

On a separate issue, if you are taking narcotics for any reason, you cannot be operating heavy machinery on my company's premises. End of story. I am liable and responsible for the safety of my employees.

If you have a note from your doctor as to why you are taking it, then fine, you will get reassigned to a desk job or put on disability. If you don't have an excused reason for taking a drug not prescribed to you (illegal, btw), then you are violating the terms of your employment contract and will be fired. Why is this a shock to anyone?Shocking

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25-02-2014, 05:24 PM
RE: [split] First time drug experience
(25-02-2014 05:07 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(25-02-2014 05:00 PM)Chas Wrote:  But drug testing doesn't tell you that. It is insufficient evidence.

correct. And when I confronted you about it, you would have to supply me with a note from your doctor. Then, your job function would be reassigned as you cannot operate under the influence of a psychoactive drug.

And you don't see the unfairness of that?
Because an employee occasionally takes opiates/narcotics for pain management, you would restrict his/her job function without evidence that the employee was ever impaired?

I tested positive for opiates two days after I had taken a total of 4 AC&C pills on a Saturday.
(AC&C is aspirin with caffeine and codeine - an over the counter medication in Canada.)

You would restrict my job function or fire me for that? Shocking

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25-02-2014, 05:26 PM
RE: [split] First time drug experience
(25-02-2014 05:21 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  Taq... Seriously, it's exhausting.. Normal conversation please?



Thumbsup very apt. Wanna be a member of the bitch club? Cuz he is about to call you one in 3...2....1....

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25-02-2014, 05:31 PM (This post was last modified: 25-02-2014 05:37 PM by Cathym112.)
RE: [split] First time drug experience
(25-02-2014 05:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-02-2014 05:07 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  correct. And when I confronted you about it, you would have to supply me with a note from your doctor. Then, your job function would be reassigned as you cannot operate under the influence of a psychoactive drug.

And you don't see the unfairness of that?
Because an employee occasionally takes opiates/narcotics for pain management, you would restrict his/her job function without evidence that the employee was ever impaired?

I tested positive for opiates two days after I had taken a total of 4 AC&C pills on a Saturday.
(AC&C is aspirin with caffeine and codeine - an over the counter medication in Canada.)

You would restrict my job function or fire me for that? Shocking

Chas, my friend. I cannot take the legal liability risk should something happen with you as the operator, even if it was merely coincidence, if I had a solid indication (i.e. drug test results) that you had a narcotic in your system. NoNoNoNoNo

Accidents with heavy machinery are rare, but when they happen, its never just a simple broken bone. People get crushed to death, or lose limbs, or become permanently disabled. Gasp

I have no choice but to reassign you. In fact, even the prescription bottle instructs you not to use or operate heavy machinery. Facepalm

Imagine if you were person that lost your arm or was severely injured because I did not pull the pill-popper (regardless of his reasons) off the crane despite my having full knowledge that he tested positive for drugs? You'd own me in court. I would be negligent.

If you can't see that, I don't really know what to tell you. Shocking

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25-02-2014, 05:56 PM (This post was last modified: 25-02-2014 06:01 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: [split] First time drug experience
(25-02-2014 12:53 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  My company deals in a lot of heavy machinery. Can you imagine the lawsuit I would face if I knew someone was a habitual user but did nothing to prevent an accident?! Good lord! I'd be out of business in a second.
...
here is my obligation to OSHA. Care to stop looking like an idiot?

And that is a very good reason to drug test. But if the employee has a valid prescription would you still fire him? Could you? Or would you give him clerical duties or something to minimize your risk exposure? My brother suffered from chronic pancreatitis for decades. Before he became an actuary he worked at a milk plant where there were all sorta heavy equipment and machinery involved. Drug testing was mandatory. Every time he was tested he tested positive on some crazyass narcotic - fetanyl, oxycodone, morphine, or god only knows what other exotic narcotic shit the Johns Hopkins Pain Clinic was trying on him this month. Prior to the test he told the tester you're gonna find this and here's my script. Now he was represented by a union so firing him wasn't an option. Changing his duties to minimize risk was their only option. You could probably fire him if you ain't a union shop. But would you?

And while drug testing is to be expected in your industry, what if your industry had no heavy equipment or safety concerns (other than say, carpal tunnel syndrome) and relied heavily on continuous creative and novel "thinking outside the box" to create innovations? I'm guessing that "Happy Hour" in Redmond has taken on a whole new meaning after Washington approved recreational pot use. "All right team, what strain should we try for tonight's blue sky brainstorming session?" Hell I'm betting Microsoft is even providing the weed. Big Grin

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