[split] First time drug experience
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25-02-2014, 06:10 PM
RE: [split] First time drug experience
(25-02-2014 05:56 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(25-02-2014 12:53 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  My company deals in a lot of heavy machinery. Can you imagine the lawsuit I would face if I knew someone was a habitual user but did nothing to prevent an accident?! Good lord! I'd be out of business in a second.
...
here is my obligation to OSHA. Care to stop looking like an idiot?

And that is a very good reason to drug test. But if the employee has a valid prescription would you still fire him? Could you? Or would you give him clerical duties or something to minimize your risk exposure? My brother suffered from chronic pancreatitis for decades. Before he became an actuary he worked at a milk plant where there were all sorta heavy equipment and machinery involved. Drug testing was mandatory. Every time he was tested he tested positive on some crazyass narcotic - fetanyl, oxycodone, morphine, or god only knows what other exotic narcotic shit the Johns Hopkins Pain Clinic was trying on him this month. Prior to the test he told the tester you're gonna find this and here's my script. Now he was represented by a union so firing him wasn't an option. Changing his duties to minimize risk was their only option. You could probably fire him if you ain't a union shop. But would you?

And while drug testing is to be expected in your industry, what if your industry had no heavy equipment or safety concerns (other than say, carpal tunnel syndrome) and relied heavily on continuous creative and novel "thinking outside the box" to create innovations? I'm guessing that "Happy Hour" in Redmond has taken on a whole new meaning after Washington approved recreational pot use. "All right team, what strain should we try for tonight's blue sky brainstorming session?" Hell I'm betting Microsoft is even providing the weed. Big Grin

Girly,

I need you engineers and creative types to innovate the product, then I manufacture the product and distribute the product.

And I've answered this a couple a times :-) that employee would be reassigned or put on paid leave/disability.

I'm not an asshole. A woman was using pot to combat her chemo. So when she came up positive, I gave her six months of paid leave.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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25-02-2014, 06:26 PM
RE: [split] First time drug experience
(25-02-2014 05:31 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(25-02-2014 05:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  And you don't see the unfairness of that?
Because an employee occasionally takes opiates/narcotics for pain management, you would restrict his/her job function without evidence that the employee was ever impaired?

I tested positive for opiates two days after I had taken a total of 4 AC&C pills on a Saturday.
(AC&C is aspirin with caffeine and codeine - an over the counter medication in Canada.)

You would restrict my job function or fire me for that? Shocking

Chas, my friend. I cannot take the legal liability risk should something happen with you as the operator, even if it was merely coincidence, if I had a solid indication (i.e. drug test results) that you had a narcotic in your system. NoNoNoNoNo

Accidents with heavy machinery are rare, but when they happen, its never just a simple broken bone. People get crushed to death, or lose limbs, or become permanently disabled. Gasp

I have no choice but to reassign you. In fact, even the prescription bottle instructs you not to use or operate heavy machinery. Facepalm

Imagine if you were person that lost your arm or was severely injured because I did not pull the pill-popper (regardless of his reasons) off the crane despite my having full knowledge that he tested positive for drugs? You'd own me in court. I would be negligent.

If you can't see that, I don't really know what to tell you. Shocking

There is a serious problem with your view. Drug testing tests for drug metabolites, instead of, or in addition to, the drugs themselves.
For example, heroin and cocaine can only be detected for a few hours after use, but their metabolites can be detected for several days in urine.

Your position is based on ignorance of what drug testing actually tests.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-02-2014, 06:33 PM (This post was last modified: 25-02-2014 06:47 PM by Cathym112.)
RE: [split] First time drug experience
(25-02-2014 06:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-02-2014 05:31 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Chas, my friend. I cannot take the legal liability risk should something happen with you as the operator, even if it was merely coincidence, if I had a solid indication (i.e. drug test results) that you had a narcotic in your system. NoNoNoNoNo

Accidents with heavy machinery are rare, but when they happen, its never just a simple broken bone. People get crushed to death, or lose limbs, or become permanently disabled. Gasp

I have no choice but to reassign you. In fact, even the prescription bottle instructs you not to use or operate heavy machinery. Facepalm

Imagine if you were person that lost your arm or was severely injured because I did not pull the pill-popper (regardless of his reasons) off the crane despite my having full knowledge that he tested positive for drugs? You'd own me in court. I would be negligent.

If you can't see that, I don't really know what to tell you. Shocking

There is a serious problem with your view. Drug testing tests for drug metabolites, instead of, or in addition to, the drugs themselves.
For example, heroin and cocaine can only be detected for a few hours after use, but their metabolites can be detected for several days in urine.

Your position is based on ignorance of what drug testing actually tests.

Are you being intentionally obtuse? When did I say that I only did one method (blood vs urine).

Blood, urine and hair is tested.

It would be in your employment contract and frankly, irresponsible of you to put the entire business at risk because you don't want to reassigned.

I have a duty to everyone else around them when they are operating heavy machinery. How incredibly selfish of you to put my business at risk (like you fucking own the place and the liability insurance payment comes outta your pocket) just because you don't wanna get reassigned. That's rather prick-ish of you.

Based on what you were saying, by the time this guy turned himself in, and got drug tested, he would have been no longer "high" but the drug still in his system. The business owners were sued.

Even if he wasn't high, the fact that the drug was in his system is enough to provide for a proponderence of evidence that I was negligent. Especially since I would have te drug tests before his use of the machine.

http://m.nydailynews.com/1.1366608#bmb=1

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25-02-2014, 06:41 PM (This post was last modified: 25-02-2014 07:40 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: [split] First time drug experience
(25-02-2014 06:10 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  And I've answered this a couple a times :-) that employee would be reassigned or put on paid leave/disability.

Fair enough. I was still crafting my response when you answered my question in your response to Chas. Thumbsup

(25-02-2014 06:10 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  I'm not an asshole. A woman was using pot to combat her chemo. So when she came up positive, I gave her six months of paid leave.

No you are most definitely not an asshole or worse yet a prick. We just have a difference of opinion on what constitutes "escaping reality". I just don't consider my sober interpretation of my sensors and transducers and actuators any more representative of "reality" than when I'm trippin' my balls off and they're all saying "LOOK! LOOK! GWYNNIES GWYNNIES EVERYWHERE!"

[Image: gwynnies.jpg]
[Image: topless3.jpg]

and you do. That's all. No biggie. What I find most interesting is that all mammals have cannabinoid receptors in all sorta cells throughout the body and that means we been consuming cannabis for a very very long long time.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
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Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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25-02-2014, 06:44 PM
RE: [split] First time drug experience
(25-02-2014 05:26 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(25-02-2014 05:21 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  Taq... Seriously, it's exhausting.. Normal conversation please?



Thumbsup very apt. Wanna be a member of the bitch club? Cuz he is about to call you one in 3...2....1....

Wrong again, as usual. And you are the one being obtuse. You make huge and stereotypical generalities, and then when you are called on them you run around claiming you didn't say what you said and didn't mean what you clearly meant. And of course anyone who calls you on it is "angry".

It's like fucking DreckSack hacked your account or something..

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25-02-2014, 06:51 PM
RE: [split] First time drug experience
(25-02-2014 06:44 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(25-02-2014 05:26 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Thumbsup very apt. Wanna be a member of the bitch club? Cuz he is about to call you one in 3...2....1....

Wrong again, as usual. And you are the one being obtuse. You make huge and stereotypical generalities, and then when you are called on them you run around claiming you didn't say what you said and didn't mean what you clearly meant. And of course anyone who calls you on it is "angry".

It's like fucking DreckSack hacked your account or something..

No actually. You are deliberately mischaracterising what I'm saying in this irrational and unjustified hissy fit because I don't associate with drug addicts.

FFS.

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25-02-2014, 07:55 PM
RE: [split] First time drug experience
(25-02-2014 01:42 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  TM - I really don't care that you smoke pot. Knock yourself out. But thats not really the issue is it? Some people like it, some people don't. You like it, I don't. Why can't I hold this differing opinion on how I choose to live my life. How is it even remotely bothering you?

I still Heart ya, Cathym, but we're going to have to agree to disagree. I've done nearly every illegal drug on Earth that doesn't require a needle to administer to yourself, and never became addicted to any of them, maybe, because I was not looking to escape reality, but was looking to enhance it. I simply wished to "experience it all"! That being said, perhaps, you should start giving your employees psych tests, as well! Because if they're looking to escape reality, it won't matter what the substance happens to be that they find to accomplish it.

Now! This could just be me, but regardless how awesome the effects of these varying substances on me were, I never lost the faculty to realize that it was simply an effect! My skin was tingly, the patterns on the drapes began dancing Banana_zorro Cool tactiles, awesome visuals. But I never came to believe I was a glass of orange juice Undecided , or that demons were after me Dodgy , or that I should start a fight with someone for no good reason (excepting while on alcohol)!

But even with liquor I've driven home well beyond slightly drunk before (that was years ago), and never broke the speed limit, or drove outside the lines, because if your not retarded to start with, you can compensate for the effects you know so well for having experienced them often enough to know how to deal with them. (Yes I know there is a drunk that is incapable of evading accidents, but that's why you only get that shit-faced when you know you're welcome to stay the night, or are in your own home)

Bottom line? Might want to add an IQ test in there, as well! If you're fucking stupid, you'll be retarded sober, drunk, high, or trippin. If we could pry into a retard's dreams, we'd probably find that he/she is fucking stupid in there, too! I'm not implying that everyone who's died of an overdose was fucking stupid, mind you (Though I'd bet money Dodgy )!

Anyway...
@ Everyone Else
I'm not as... cool Dodgy .... as TrainWreck! I can't do homeless! So if the law says I lose everything if I continue to employ you after finding out you have THC in your system, and it came down to my money, or you? Well...





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25-02-2014, 08:04 PM (This post was last modified: 25-02-2014 08:17 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: [split] First time drug experience
(25-02-2014 07:55 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  I still Heart ya, Cathym, but we're going to have to agree to disagree. I've done nearly every illegal drug on Earth that doesn't require a needle to administer to yourself, and never became addicted to any of them, maybe, because I was not looking to escape reality, but was looking to expand it.

Great post! Thumbsup Fixed the first part for ya'. Tongue

(25-02-2014 07:55 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  If we could pry into a retard's dreams, we'd probably find that he/she is fucking stupid in there, too!

My dear Christian 73 yo mother has taken in a 45 yo woman who the State of Maryland has designated disabled with a functional IQ of 60 as a roommate. I interact with her all the time and all I see is unutilized brilliance. She ain't gonna write code, she probably ain't even gonna pick up your trash or mop your floors, but she will fucking change your world with a smile and a giggle.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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25-02-2014, 08:16 PM
RE: [split] First time drug experience
(25-02-2014 06:33 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(25-02-2014 06:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  There is a serious problem with your view. Drug testing tests for drug metabolites, instead of, or in addition to, the drugs themselves.
For example, heroin and cocaine can only be detected for a few hours after use, but their metabolites can be detected for several days in urine.

Your position is based on ignorance of what drug testing actually tests.

Are you being intentionally obtuse? When did I say that I only did one method (blood vs urine).

Blood, urine and hair is tested.

It would be in your employment contract and frankly, irresponsible of you to put the entire business at risk because you don't want to reassigned.

I have a duty to everyone else around them when they are operating heavy machinery. How incredibly selfish of you to put my business at risk (like you fucking own the place and the liability insurance payment comes outta your pocket) just because you don't wanna get reassigned. That's rather prick-ish of you.

Based on what you were saying, by the time this guy turned himself in, and got drug tested, he would have been no longer "high" but the drug still in his system. The business owners were sued.

Even if he wasn't high, the fact that the drug was in his system is enough to provide for a proponderence of evidence that I was negligent. Especially since I would have te drug tests before his use of the machine.

http://m.nydailynews.com/1.1366608#bmb=1

* preponderance

You seem to miss the point. There is no drug present in the blood or urine after a few hours and none in the hair for about 10 hours. The point is that someone will test positive without any active drug, therefore not under the influence.

You are punishing someone on a moral basis for what they do on their own time, not for something that affects their performance on the job. If they are not actually high, then you are doing them an injustice.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-02-2014, 08:40 PM
RE: [split] First time drug experience
,,,,,

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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