[split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
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21-08-2014, 06:06 PM
[split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(03-12-2012 02:54 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(02-12-2012 04:51 PM)mrba1979 Wrote:  The same for me as well. There are many of the traditions of the church I am missing. The music was wonderful and I enjoyed singing and chanting. Iconography is beautiful and we have packed all of our icons away. Our walls were so bare that we had to go out and buy new art. The paschal (easter) service was exciting and I loved eating afterward at two in the morning. Both christmas and pascha are going to be very weird for us this year. I know we could still technically enjoy all of these, but the closest orthodox church for us, other than the mission church which we really do not want to go back to, is hour and a half away. We are also still so close in time to having left that we really needed to separate ours selves from all of it. So in time maybe will put some of our favorite icons gifted to us from family and friends back up and attend an occasional feast day service for nostalgic value. I don't know since this is just all so new.
I still have a couple of icons around the house. Can't say they bother me too much. To me they're just a piece of art. Hey, about half of the music I listen to is religious (mediaevel, rennaisance, baroque, gregorian chants) - doesn't bother me either. They are just expressions of the beauty that people are capable of and no god has anything to do with it.

I never did use to go to service, so this I don't miss. I did enjoy going to light a candle and the peace, coolness and twilight of the church, but I can find those things elsewhere (not too keen on going to a church anymore). And our monasteries are so beautiful mostly because they were built in the mountains, to avoid persecution by the Ottomans, and seeing as I love nature, it's not wonder I like them.
But yeah, I think people need time to get comfortable with their newly-found atheism and see religious works of art as just this - harmless works of art.

(02-12-2012 07:27 PM)Audrey Wrote:  I was so proud of it too, I thought we were so much better than Catholics and Protestants (embarrassed face)

If you are ok with sharing, what led you to stop being Orthodox? (If I am interpreting your post correctly, you said you are no longer Orthodox.)
I think in a way we were better. Not so fundamentalist (or maybe I just didn't know about it, because I was kind of self-taught religionist).

Why I stopped being religious? Well, who knows exactly... I sometimes think the god part of my brain just clicked and got switched off.

The longer version is that there were a lot of things I couldn't accept about Xianity (or any religion for that matter; I mean, how can the salvation of your immortal soul be dependent on where you were born? And what about those people who were born before Xianity - are their souls doomed forever, just because they were born too soon), stuff that didn't make sense and just this tiny kernel of doubt that I think I've always carried inside me, that finally exploded into a huge popcorn of reason Wink

(And I actually was thinking about going to a monastery... I know, I know [Image: th_smiley_emoticons_selbstmord.gif] )


Vera i set up this account only to answer you as a fellow Greek because you are confused about Orthodoxy. Jesus Christ taught us that the salvation comes when we believe in His word, but what about Muslims? Pagans? Atheists? Are they condemned because they believe in the wrong God or because they don't believe at all? Of course not, Jesus said that everyone is welcomed at His father's table and He said that because Christianity is a way of life and not a label, the Word of Jesus (His Teachings) are love, forgiveness, mercy, humility, peace, freedom, patience, charity, and so on...His teachings are Universal, goodness obeys in these teachings everywhere on earth, so you will not be judged by God for thinking that God is blue but for thinking only yourself. Christianity says that you worship God when you worship the needs of the weak, the sick and the wronged. That also answers the second question "what about the people before Christ" obviously before Christ there were good men, Jesus said "Before Abraham i am" He meant that His Teachings apply from the start of Humanity and not from His coming. An atheist will say "Yeah but God is evil in the Old Testament, how can you judge the people according to Jesus when God in the Old Testament disagree with Jesus?" Well that's the reason Jesus came to earth, to correct the relationship between God and men because men justified evil actions in the name of God such as wars, death penalnties and so on...the Mosaic Law was man made and wasn't created by God. Jesus asked the Pharisees about the heart of the law and not the law.

There is no God part of your brain, you choose to believe in God by making actions the things Jesus taught us and not just believing, what if belief anyway? God isn't a physical being to think for Him, God is everywhere. Now, i know that atheists have armed you with more arguments against God and i am really ready to destroy them.

Some flaws about Atheism.

If God doesn't exist then the Universe was popped out of Nothingness, assembled itself through Randomness and we are here by pure Luck. The last time i checked my science books Randomness Nothingness and Luck didn't exist as scientific explanations because the Universe is Deterministic Homogeneous and Finite. Physical infinite causes also are out of the table, BVG Theorem actually proved that the Physical Universe had a beginning even if it were quantum fluctuations therefor the cause of the Universe was transcendental. The Fine Tuning of the Universe complements the argument if the transcendental cause was mindless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDMpWcf4ee0

If God doesn't exist objective morals doesn't exist. You will hear atheists say the opposite that morals can exist without God and even without Christ we could reach the same morals. That's wrong and we have an alive paradigm (except USSR). The Atheists Epicurean Philosophers the first atheists (the people that are responsible for modern atheism) one day looked at the sky and said "There are no Gods, lets make our morals based on Nature" AND THEY DID IT! Do you want to know how this ended up? Did they reached the divine word of the Lord Jesus Christ? NOT AT ALL! The Atheists Epicurean Philosophers openly supported slavery, woman abuse, woman inequality, murder, incest, rape, worship of the God Cesar AND EVEN IN THE TIME OF CHRISTIANITY THEY MOCKED THE CHRISTIANS FOR SHOWING MERCY TO THE WEAK BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT MERCY AS A WEAKNESS!!!! They also thought that the Universe is Eternal and said that there is no reason to understand the Universe because it is Eternal and we are mortals!

If God doesn't exist then everything is composed of atoms, everything is materialism therefor everything breaks down to atoms, a rock from a living being has no difference at all! If life came from non life then we can say that even a rock is alive! Or we are dead as rocks (depending the way of view)
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21-08-2014, 06:23 PM (This post was last modified: 21-08-2014 06:28 PM by Momsurroundedbyboys.)
RE: From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(21-08-2014 06:06 PM)JimFit Wrote:  
(03-12-2012 02:54 AM)Vera Wrote:  I still have a couple of icons around the house. Can't say they bother me too much. To me they're just a piece of art. Hey, about half of the music I listen to is religious (mediaevel, rennaisance, baroque, gregorian chants) - doesn't bother me either. They are just expressions of the beauty that people are capable of and no god has anything to do with it.

I never did use to go to service, so this I don't miss. I did enjoy going to light a candle and the peace, coolness and twilight of the church, but I can find those things elsewhere (not too keen on going to a church anymore). And our monasteries are so beautiful mostly because they were built in the mountains, to avoid persecution by the Ottomans, and seeing as I love nature, it's not wonder I like them.
But yeah, I think people need time to get comfortable with their newly-found atheism and see religious works of art as just this - harmless works of art.

I think in a way we were better. Not so fundamentalist (or maybe I just didn't know about it, because I was kind of self-taught religionist).

Why I stopped being religious? Well, who knows exactly... I sometimes think the god part of my brain just clicked and got switched off.

The longer version is that there were a lot of things I couldn't accept about Xianity (or any religion for that matter; I mean, how can the salvation of your immortal soul be dependent on where you were born? And what about those people who were born before Xianity - are their souls doomed forever, just because they were born too soon), stuff that didn't make sense and just this tiny kernel of doubt that I think I've always carried inside me, that finally exploded into a huge popcorn of reason Wink

(And I actually was thinking about going to a monastery... I know, I know [Image: th_smiley_emoticons_selbstmord.gif] )


Vera i set up this account only to answer you as a fellow Greek because you are confused about Orthodoxy. Jesus Christ taught us that the salvation comes when we believe in His word, but what about Muslims? Pagans? Atheists? Are they condemned because they believe in the wrong God or because they don't believe at all? Of course not, Jesus said that everyone is welcomed at His father's table and He said that because Christianity is a way of life and not a label, the Word of Jesus (His Teachings) are love, forgiveness, mercy, humility, peace, freedom, patience, charity, and so on...His teachings are Universal, goodness obeys in these teachings everywhere on earth, so you will not be judged by God for thinking that God is blue but for thinking only yourself. Christianity says that you worship God when you worship the needs of the weak, the sick and the wronged. That also answers the second question "what about the people before Christ" obviously before Christ there were good men, Jesus said "Before Abraham i am" He meant that His Teachings apply from the start of Humanity and not from His coming. An atheist will say "Yeah but God is evil in the Old Testament, how can you judge the people according to Jesus when God in the Old Testament disagree with Jesus?" Well that's the reason Jesus came to earth, to correct the relationship between God and men because men justified evil actions in the name of God such as wars, death penalnties and so on...the Mosaic Law was man made and wasn't created by God. Jesus asked the Pharisees about the heart of the law and not the law.

There is no God part of your brain, you choose to believe in God by making actions the things Jesus taught us and not just believing, what if belief anyway? God isn't a physical being to think for Him, God is everywhere. Now, i know that atheists have armed you with more arguments against God and i am really ready to destroy them.

Some flaws about Atheism.

If God doesn't exist then the Universe was popped out of Nothingness, assembled itself through Randomness and we are here by pure Luck. The last time i checked my science books Randomness Nothingness and Luck didn't exist as scientific explanations because the Universe is Deterministic Homogeneous and Finite. Physical infinite causes also are out of the table, BVG Theorem actually proved that the Physical Universe had a beginning even if it were quantum fluctuations therefor the cause of the Universe was transcendental. The Fine Tuning of the Universe complements the argument if the transcendental cause was mindless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDMpWcf4ee0

If God doesn't exist objective morals doesn't exist. You will hear atheists say the opposite that morals can exist without God and even without Christ we could reach the same morals. That's wrong and we have an alive paradigm (except USSR). The Atheists Epicurean Philosophers the first atheists (the people that are responsible for modern atheism) one day looked at the sky and said "There are no Gods, lets make our morals based on Nature" AND THEY DID IT! Do you want to know how this ended up? Did they reached the divine word of the Lord Jesus Christ? NOT AT ALL! The Atheists Epicurean Philosophers openly supported slavery, woman abuse, woman inequality, murder, incest, rape, worship of the God Cesar AND EVEN IN THE TIME OF CHRISTIANITY THEY MOCKED THE CHRISTIANS FOR SHOWING MERCY TO THE WEAK BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT MERCY AS A WEAKNESS!!!! They also thought that the Universe is Eternal and said that there is no reason to understand the Universe because it is Eternal and we are mortals!

If God doesn't exist then everything is composed of atoms, everything is materialism therefor everything breaks down to atoms, a rock from a living being has no difference at all! If life came from non life then we can say that even a rock is alive! Or we are dead as rocks (depending the way of view)

Welcome to the forum...

You made an account to reply to a post from 2012?

Anyway Split thread since debates aren't allowed in intro section and I'm certain your reply will spark debate.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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21-08-2014, 06:27 PM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(21-08-2014 06:23 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(21-08-2014 06:06 PM)JimFit Wrote:  Vera i set up this account only to answer you as a fellow Greek because you are confused about Orthodoxy. Jesus Christ taught us that the salvation comes when we believe in His word, but what about Muslims? Pagans? Atheists? Are they condemned because they believe in the wrong God or because they don't believe at all? Of course not, Jesus said that everyone is welcomed at His father's table and He said that because Christianity is a way of life and not a label, the Word of Jesus (His Teachings) are love, forgiveness, mercy, humility, peace, freedom, patience, charity, and so on...His teachings are Universal, goodness obeys in these teachings everywhere on earth, so you will not be judged by God for thinking that God is blue but for thinking only yourself. Christianity says that you worship God when you worship the needs of the weak, the sick and the wronged. That also answers the second question "what about the people before Christ" obviously before Christ there were good men, Jesus said "Before Abraham i am" He meant that His Teachings apply from the start of Humanity and not from His coming. An atheist will say "Yeah but God is evil in the Old Testament, how can you judge the people according to Jesus when God in the Old Testament disagree with Jesus?" Well that's the reason Jesus came to earth, to correct the relationship between God and men because men justified evil actions in the name of God such as wars, death penalnties and so on...the Mosaic Law was man made and wasn't created by God. Jesus asked the Pharisees about the heart of the law and not the law.

There is no God part of your brain, you choose to believe in God by making actions the things Jesus taught us and not just believing, what if belief anyway? God isn't a physical being to think for Him, God is everywhere. Now, i know that atheists have armed you with more arguments against God and i am really ready to destroy them.

Some flaws about Atheism.

If God doesn't exist then the Universe was popped out of Nothingness, assembled itself through Randomness and we are here by pure Luck. The last time i checked my science books Randomness Nothingness and Luck didn't exist as scientific explanations because the Universe is Deterministic Homogeneous and Finite. Physical infinite causes also are out of the table, BVG Theorem actually proved that the Physical Universe had a beginning even if it were quantum fluctuations therefor the cause of the Universe was transcendental. The Fine Tuning of the Universe complements the argument if the transcendental cause was mindless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDMpWcf4ee0

If God doesn't exist objective morals doesn't exist. You will hear atheists say the opposite that morals can exist without God and even without Christ we could reach the same morals. That's wrong and we have an alive paradigm (except USSR). The Atheists Epicurean Philosophers the first atheists (the people that are responsible for modern atheism) one day looked at the sky and said "There are no Gods, lets make our morals based on Nature" AND THEY DID IT! Do you want to know how this ended up? Did they reached the divine word of the Lord Jesus Christ? NOT AT ALL! The Atheists Epicurean Philosophers openly supported slavery, woman abuse, woman inequality, murder, incest, rape, worship of the God Cesar AND EVEN IN THE TIME OF CHRISTIANITY THEY MOCKED THE CHRISTIANS FOR SHOWING MERCY TO THE WEAK BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT MERCY AS A WEAKNESS!!!! They also thought that the Universe is Eternal and said that there is no reason to understand the Universe because it is Eternal and we are mortals!

If God doesn't exist then everything is composed of atoms, everything is materialism therefor everything breaks down to atoms, a rock from a living being has no difference at all! If life came from non life then we can say that even a rock is alive! Or we are dead as rocks (depending the way of view)

Welcome to the forum...

You made an account to reply to a post from 2012?

And they say Atheists are smarter than theists overall. Drinking Beverage

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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21-08-2014, 06:36 PM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
You do realize how insulting and prejudiced your post is don't you? If you think this is any way to convince anyone, you are mistaken. All you've done is convinced them how great it is not to believe the garbage you're spewing.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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21-08-2014, 06:42 PM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
Welcome jimfit!

I wonder.....Consider are you truly able to validate, substantiate and articulate your faith?...or are you the typical delusional believer who drives by this forum spouting fairy tale scriptures as argument from authority then runs and hides when presented with facts?

Inquiring minds wanna know, lets do a test....

"Jesus Christ taught us that the salvation comes when we believe in His word, but what about Muslims? Pagans? Atheists? Are they condemned because they believe in the wrong God or because they don't believe at all? Of course not, Jesus said that everyone is welcomed at His father's table and He said that because Christianity is a way of life and not a label, the Word of Jesus (His Teachings) are love, forgiveness, mercy, humility, peace, freedom, patience, charity, and so on...His teachings are Universal, goodness obeys in these teachings everywhere on earth, so you will not be judged by God for thinking that God is blue but for thinking only yourself. "

really? and how do you know that the mythical JC said any of that since he never penned a single word, and no one who wrote of jesus actually knew him...lets see how much you know about your own faith...don't be scared, I am here to help you.

Jump into the pool, I am here to lead you to the light.

[Image: 23h81mh.jpg]

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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21-08-2014, 07:19 PM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(21-08-2014 06:06 PM)JimFit Wrote:  The Atheists Epicurean Philosophers openly supported slavery, woman abuse, woman inequality, murder, incest, rape, worship of the God Cesar...

Just curious, since you think murder is immoral, what do you think of the genocide that your god committed in Genesis when it drowned every man, woman, child, animal and plant on the planet? Was this a bad thing or was it "just" because your god declared it so?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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21-08-2014, 07:30 PM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
it's ok jimfit, I know it is a confusing time. The louder you preach the harder you are working to try to drown out your inner doubt. Don't fight it, I am here to help you, come, lets take a walk down the path of knowledge together, i will help you see the light, I know, I know, its scarey, but remember, fear is the basis of religion, don't be scared, lets take that blindfold off and open your horizons and perspective a bit with facts, instead of faith; the belief in something without evidence...let me know when you are ready for the first steps of analyzing your faith.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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21-08-2014, 07:35 PM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
Personally, I love people who come here, go through the whole process of creating an account to necro a thread, leave a post that might spark discussion and never return...

Facepalm

How annoying is that?


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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21-08-2014, 07:36 PM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
I wouldn't debate me either Smartass







kidding....a little Unsure Drooling

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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21-08-2014, 09:02 PM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
Any person that can't stick around for the debate is a coward and if his beliefs are so weak can't stand to even hear criticism its not a belief worth holding.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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