[split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
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23-08-2014, 01:07 AM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(22-08-2014 11:56 AM)JimFit Wrote:  If life came from non life then everything around us is alive.

If everything around us was alive then life wouldn't be coming from non-life.

Your statement is a non sequitur (look it up).
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23-08-2014, 01:13 AM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
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[ctrl+c]goodwithoutgood[ctrl+v]

/thread

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23-08-2014, 01:32 AM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(23-08-2014 01:07 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(22-08-2014 11:56 AM)JimFit Wrote:  If life came from non life then everything around us is alive.

If everything around us was alive then life wouldn't be coming from non-life.

Your statement is a non sequitur (look it up).

Oh yeah? You think you're so smart. Answer this:

1- If life came from non-life, why are there still non-life everywhere?
2- If humans came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys running around?

Checkmate, atheist!!

I'm just kidding. I find Jimfit's quote so silly and childish, I just had to throw in some similar bonus.
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23-08-2014, 05:12 AM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(22-08-2014 11:06 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(22-08-2014 12:50 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Faith is a failed epistemology. Showing why faith fails has been done before and done well. (Bering 2011, Harris 2004, Loftus 2010, 2013, McCormick 2012, Schick & Vaughn 2008, Shermer 1997, 2011, Smith 1979, STenger & Barker 2012, Torres 2012, Wade 2009 etc)

I have to give an endorsement of Loftus on this one. The Christian Delusion: Why Faith Fails (2010) is a powerful anthology, bring together a slew of scholars including; Dr. David Eller, Dr. Valerie Tarico, Dr. Jason Long, Edward T. Babinski, Paul Tobin, Dr. Hector Avalos, Dr. Robert M. Price, and Dr. Richard Carrier. It's a good read because it covers a broad range, split into 5 sections, each containing 3 to 4 chapters written by a different author each with their own perspective.

That sounds interesting, have to add that to my reading list. John Loftus' book "Why I became an Atheist" played a key role to my acceptance of atheism.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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23-08-2014, 05:18 AM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(23-08-2014 01:32 AM)xieulong Wrote:  
(23-08-2014 01:07 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  If everything around us was alive then life wouldn't be coming from non-life.

Your statement is a non sequitur (look it up).
Oh yeah? You think you're so smart. Answer this:

1- If life came from non-life, why are there still non-life everywhere?
2- If humans came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys running around?

For the same reason that the people in the United Kingdom didn't magically disappear when their colonies in the Americas declared independence, thus making the colonists British citizens no longer. Rolleyes

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23-08-2014, 08:09 AM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(21-08-2014 06:06 PM)JimFit Wrote:  
(03-12-2012 02:54 AM)Vera Wrote:  I still have a couple of icons around the house. Can't say they bother me too much. To me they're just a piece of art. Hey, about half of the music I listen to is religious (mediaevel, rennaisance, baroque, gregorian chants) - doesn't bother me either. They are just expressions of the beauty that people are capable of and no god has anything to do with it.

I never did use to go to service, so this I don't miss. I did enjoy going to light a candle and the peace, coolness and twilight of the church, but I can find those things elsewhere (not too keen on going to a church anymore). And our monasteries are so beautiful mostly because they were built in the mountains, to avoid persecution by the Ottomans, and seeing as I love nature, it's not wonder I like them.
But yeah, I think people need time to get comfortable with their newly-found atheism and see religious works of art as just this - harmless works of art.

I think in a way we were better. Not so fundamentalist (or maybe I just didn't know about it, because I was kind of self-taught religionist).

Why I stopped being religious? Well, who knows exactly... I sometimes think the god part of my brain just clicked and got switched off.

The longer version is that there were a lot of things I couldn't accept about Xianity (or any religion for that matter; I mean, how can the salvation of your immortal soul be dependent on where you were born? And what about those people who were born before Xianity - are their souls doomed forever, just because they were born too soon), stuff that didn't make sense and just this tiny kernel of doubt that I think I've always carried inside me, that finally exploded into a huge popcorn of reason Wink

(And I actually was thinking about going to a monastery... I know, I know [Image: th_smiley_emoticons_selbstmord.gif] )


Vera i set up this account only to answer you as a fellow Greek because you are confused about Orthodoxy. Jesus Christ taught us that the salvation comes when we believe in His word, but what about Muslims? Pagans? Atheists? Are they condemned because they believe in the wrong God or because they don't believe at all? Of course not, Jesus said that everyone is welcomed at His father's table and He said that because Christianity is a way of life and not a label, the Word of Jesus (His Teachings) are love, forgiveness, mercy, humility, peace, freedom, patience, charity, and so on...His teachings are Universal, goodness obeys in these teachings everywhere on earth, so you will not be judged by God for thinking that God is blue but for thinking only yourself. Christianity says that you worship God when you worship the needs of the weak, the sick and the wronged. That also answers the second question "what about the people before Christ" obviously before Christ there were good men, Jesus said "Before Abraham i am" He meant that His Teachings apply from the start of Humanity and not from His coming. An atheist will say "Yeah but God is evil in the Old Testament, how can you judge the people according to Jesus when God in the Old Testament disagree with Jesus?" Well that's the reason Jesus came to earth, to correct the relationship between God and men because men justified evil actions in the name of God such as wars, death penalnties and so on...the Mosaic Law was man made and wasn't created by God. Jesus asked the Pharisees about the heart of the law and not the law.

There is no God part of your brain, you choose to believe in God by making actions the things Jesus taught us and not just believing, what if belief anyway? God isn't a physical being to think for Him, God is everywhere. Now, i know that atheists have armed you with more arguments against God and i am really ready to destroy them.

Some flaws about Atheism.

If God doesn't exist then the Universe was popped out of Nothingness, assembled itself through Randomness and we are here by pure Luck. The last time i checked my science books Randomness Nothingness and Luck didn't exist as scientific explanations because the Universe is Deterministic Homogeneous and Finite. Physical infinite causes also are out of the table, BVG Theorem actually proved that the Physical Universe had a beginning even if it were quantum fluctuations therefor the cause of the Universe was transcendental. The Fine Tuning of the Universe complements the argument if the transcendental cause was mindless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDMpWcf4ee0

If God doesn't exist objective morals doesn't exist. You will hear atheists say the opposite that morals can exist without God and even without Christ we could reach the same morals. That's wrong and we have an alive paradigm (except USSR). The Atheists Epicurean Philosophers the first atheists (the people that are responsible for modern atheism) one day looked at the sky and said "There are no Gods, lets make our morals based on Nature" AND THEY DID IT! Do you want to know how this ended up? Did they reached the divine word of the Lord Jesus Christ? NOT AT ALL! The Atheists Epicurean Philosophers openly supported slavery, woman abuse, woman inequality, murder, incest, rape, worship of the God Cesar AND EVEN IN THE TIME OF CHRISTIANITY THEY MOCKED THE CHRISTIANS FOR SHOWING MERCY TO THE WEAK BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT MERCY AS A WEAKNESS!!!! They also thought that the Universe is Eternal and said that there is no reason to understand the Universe because it is Eternal and we are mortals!

If God doesn't exist then everything is composed of atoms, everything is materialism therefor everything breaks down to atoms, a rock from a living being has no difference at all! If life came from non life then we can say that even a rock is alive! Or we are dead as rocks (depending the way of view)


I didn't bother reading your post and I'm not going to. I'm simply going to say fuck you for getting my hopes up that Vera had recently posted.

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25-08-2014, 06:42 AM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(22-08-2014 03:19 PM)JimFit Wrote:  
(22-08-2014 01:32 PM)wazzel Wrote:  Wrong. If you believe the gospels are accurate then that is a false statement. I give you Matthew 5:17. In several different versions.

Oh men WOW you really opened my eyes!!! How did i missed that?? Ohmy

NOP. Jesus in this passage said Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

but what law does Jesus mean? Obviously there are no laws in the Mosaic Law that needs to be completed, they were laws about state and the religious practises, was Jesus crazy? No he wasn't, Jesus talks about the prophecies of the Prophets of the Old Testament, the Mosaic Law was changed all these centuries and the laws were based uppon the teachings of the prophets but the Pharisees and the Scribers changed the laws to have power over people, they mispresented the writings of the Prophets to justify holy wars, power and so on...a little later in the Gospel Jesus answers what law he means!

34But when the Pharisees heard that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered themselves together. 35One of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, 36"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"

35One of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, 36"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" 37And He said to him, "'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'

37And He said to him, "'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' 38"This is the great and foremost commandment. 39"The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'

40"On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."



Even if you were right, the most important face in the Bible is the Son of God Jesus Christ and Him we follow, not the prophets not the Mosaic law not the Pharisees, the prophets already told that when Jesus comes their words will fade, even themselvs recognized that He is the King and the Word of God comes straight from Him.

Nice mental gymnastics. I have no idea what flavor of Christianity you follow, but you should get your theistic arguments correct if you are going to use them. I was a Christian for over 30 years of my life and studied this stuff. Your response is so far off what the major denomination teach it does not even warrant a response.
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25-08-2014, 07:58 AM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(22-08-2014 03:24 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(22-08-2014 03:08 PM)JimFit Wrote:  ...but you atheists still use him as a priest of your religion (nothingness randomness and luck).

First, I'm not really a huge fan of Carrier.
Second, atheism is just a disbelief in a deity or deities.
Thirdly, you've stated nothing that actually better people haven't tried to state before -- and were still debunked.

You are a poor representative of your faith...
Shoo fly!

You brought Carrier as the biggest debunker of Jesus Christ when he is a lunatic that even atheists historians doesn't accept.

If you don't believe in a Mind that created the Universe then by conclusion you believe that we are here by chance, that means that the Universe popped out of Nothingness assembled itself through Randomness and we are here by pure luck.

I didn't understand the third observation, can you rewrite it?
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25-08-2014, 08:05 AM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(25-08-2014 07:58 AM)JimFit Wrote:  
(22-08-2014 03:24 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  First, I'm not really a huge fan of Carrier.
Second, atheism is just a disbelief in a deity or deities.
Thirdly, you've stated nothing that actually better people haven't tried to state before -- and were still debunked.

You are a poor representative of your faith...
Shoo fly!

You brought Carrier as the biggest debunker of Jesus Christ when he is a lunatic that even atheists historians doesn't accept.

If you don't believe in a Mind that created the Universe then by conclusion you believe that we are here by chance, that means that the Universe popped out of Nothingness assembled itself through Randomness and we are here by pure luck.

I didn't understand the third observation, can you rewrite it?

Any word on why we should bother with your immoral monster God yet?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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25-08-2014, 08:09 AM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(25-08-2014 07:58 AM)JimFit Wrote:  
(22-08-2014 03:24 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  First, I'm not really a huge fan of Carrier.
Second, atheism is just a disbelief in a deity or deities.
Thirdly, you've stated nothing that actually better people haven't tried to state before -- and were still debunked.

You are a poor representative of your faith...
Shoo fly!

You brought Carrier as the biggest debunker of Jesus Christ when he is a lunatic that even atheists historians doesn't accept.

If you don't believe in a Mind that created the Universe then by conclusion you believe that we are here by chance, that means that the Universe popped out of Nothingness assembled itself through Randomness and we are here by pure luck.

I didn't understand the third observation, can you rewrite it?

I will let MSBB answer your other questions, but she didn't "bring Carrier" -- I did. And I never claimed that he is the "biggest debunker of Jesus Christ" (I in fact disagree with his conclusions). I was simply responding to your request. You said "Name one scholar who doubts the historicity of Jesus. Just one." And I responded by doing exactly what you requested. I named one such scholar. With a little research, I could have named a dozen. They are a minority, but they do exist. Not sure why you have such a problem with that. You were claiming that no such scholars exist. You were wrong. You can just admit that or you can look like an idiot. Your choice.
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