[split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
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27-08-2014, 05:46 AM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(25-08-2014 07:58 AM)JimFit Wrote:  If you don't believe in a Mind that created the Universe then by conclusion you believe that we are here by chance

False dichotomy because it ignores the role of thermodynamics in self organisation.
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01-09-2014, 06:57 PM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(27-08-2014 05:46 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(25-08-2014 07:58 AM)JimFit Wrote:  If you don't believe in a Mind that created the Universe then by conclusion you believe that we are here by chance

False dichotomy because it ignores the role of thermodynamics in self organisation.

How does this removes a Mind as the creator of the Universe? If something proves for certain that the Universe had a beginning these are Therodynamics.
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01-09-2014, 08:32 PM (This post was last modified: 01-09-2014 08:39 PM by Chas.)
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(25-08-2014 07:58 AM)JimFit Wrote:  If you don't believe in a Mind that created the Universe then by conclusion you believe that we are here by chance,

Yes, exactly. Every one of us is.

Quote:that means that the Universe popped out of Nothingness

No, that does not follow.

Quote: assembled itself through Randomness and we are here by pure luck.

Yup. Now you get it.


The probability of you being here is infinitesimally small. The odds that that particular sperm fertilized that particular egg are tiny. But even before that, every one of your ancestors had to have survived to reproduce.

Are you unable to live with the fact that you were not specially chosen to exist? The universe wasn't made for you.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-09-2014, 09:17 PM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(01-09-2014 08:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-08-2014 07:58 AM)JimFit Wrote:  If you don't believe in a Mind that created the Universe then by conclusion you believe that we are here by chance,

Yes, exactly. Every one of us is.

Quote:that means that the Universe popped out of Nothingness

No, that does not follow.

Quote: assembled itself through Randomness and we are here by pure luck.

Yup. Now you get it.


The probability of you being here is infinitesimally small. The odds that that particular sperm fertilized that particular egg are tiny. But even before that, every one of your ancestors had to have survived to reproduce.

Are you unable to live with the fact that you were not specially chosen to exist? The universe wasn't made for you.






Tyler Durden: Listen up, maggots. You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else.

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02-09-2014, 09:45 AM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(21-08-2014 06:06 PM)JimFit Wrote:  If God doesn't exist then the Universe was popped out of Nothingness, assembled itself through Randomness and we are here by pure Luck. The last time i checked my science books Randomness Nothingness and Luck didn't exist as scientific explanations because the Universe is Deterministic Homogeneous and Finite.

This is a strawman representation of the big bang. How would you like it if I summed up Christianity as "A wizard created everything from nothing, caused some problems, then promised salvation to people by offering to fix these problems"?


(21-08-2014 06:06 PM)JimFit Wrote:  Physical infinite causes also are out of the table, BVG Theorem actually proved that the Physical Universe had a beginning even if it were quantum fluctuations therefor the cause of the Universe was transcendental.

And an infinite, nonfalsifiable God is totally legit?


(21-08-2014 06:06 PM)JimFit Wrote:  The Fine Tuning of the Universe complements the argument if the transcendental cause was mindless.

The fine tuning argument is basically the same argument as saying how miraculous it was that a hole was made that was the exact shape of the puddle therein. You're putting the cart before the horse. This is just a post hoc rationalization to spin the narrative you want.

You're neglecting to take iterative probability into account. What about the countless planets that don't support life? Many of them have some of the required characteristics. The fact that one happens to have all of them isn't as special as you're making it out to be. It's one thing to cut the deck once and go straight to the ace of spades; it's quite another to cut fifty times, brag about the one time you found the ace of spades, and not talk about the other forty-nine times.

I mean, it's really unlikely for a person to win the lottery, yet someone does pretty often. Is that proof of God?


(21-08-2014 06:06 PM)JimFit Wrote:  If God doesn't exist then everything is composed of atoms, everything is materialism therefor everything breaks down to atoms, a rock from a living being has no difference at all! If life came from non life then we can say that even a rock is alive! Or we are dead as rocks (depending the way of view)

That's one way to look at it, I suppose.
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