[split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
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21-08-2014, 11:29 PM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(21-08-2014 06:06 PM)JimFit Wrote:  
(03-12-2012 02:54 AM)Vera Wrote:  I still have a couple of icons around the house. Can't say they bother me too much. To me they're just a piece of art. Hey, about half of the music I listen to is religious (mediaevel, rennaisance, baroque, gregorian chants) - doesn't bother me either. They are just expressions of the beauty that people are capable of and no god has anything to do with it.

I never did use to go to service, so this I don't miss. I did enjoy going to light a candle and the peace, coolness and twilight of the church, but I can find those things elsewhere (not too keen on going to a church anymore). And our monasteries are so beautiful mostly because they were built in the mountains, to avoid persecution by the Ottomans, and seeing as I love nature, it's not wonder I like them.
But yeah, I think people need time to get comfortable with their newly-found atheism and see religious works of art as just this - harmless works of art.

I think in a way we were better. Not so fundamentalist (or maybe I just didn't know about it, because I was kind of self-taught religionist).

Why I stopped being religious? Well, who knows exactly... I sometimes think the god part of my brain just clicked and got switched off.

The longer version is that there were a lot of things I couldn't accept about Xianity (or any religion for that matter; I mean, how can the salvation of your immortal soul be dependent on where you were born? And what about those people who were born before Xianity - are their souls doomed forever, just because they were born too soon), stuff that didn't make sense and just this tiny kernel of doubt that I think I've always carried inside me, that finally exploded into a huge popcorn of reason Wink

(And I actually was thinking about going to a monastery... I know, I know [Image: th_smiley_emoticons_selbstmord.gif] )


Vera i set up this account only to answer you as a fellow Greek because you are confused about Orthodoxy. Jesus Christ taught us that the salvation comes when we believe in His word, but what about Muslims? Pagans? Atheists? Are they condemned because they believe in the wrong God or because they don't believe at all? Of course not, Jesus said that everyone is welcomed at His father's table and He said that because Christianity is a way of life and not a label, the Word of Jesus (His Teachings) are love, forgiveness, mercy, humility, peace, freedom, patience, charity, and so on...His teachings are Universal, goodness obeys in these teachings everywhere on earth, so you will not be judged by God for thinking that God is blue but for thinking only yourself. Christianity says that you worship God when you worship the needs of the weak, the sick and the wronged. That also answers the second question "what about the people before Christ" obviously before Christ there were good men, Jesus said "Before Abraham i am" He meant that His Teachings apply from the start of Humanity and not from His coming. An atheist will say "Yeah but God is evil in the Old Testament, how can you judge the people according to Jesus when God in the Old Testament disagree with Jesus?" Well that's the reason Jesus came to earth, to correct the relationship between God and men because men justified evil actions in the name of God such as wars, death penalnties and so on...the Mosaic Law was man made and wasn't created by God. Jesus asked the Pharisees about the heart of the law and not the law.

There is no God part of your brain, you choose to believe in God by making actions the things Jesus taught us and not just believing, what if belief anyway? God isn't a physical being to think for Him, God is everywhere. Now, i know that atheists have armed you with more arguments against God and i am really ready to destroy them.

Some flaws about Atheism.

If God doesn't exist then the Universe was popped out of Nothingness, assembled itself through Randomness and we are here by pure Luck. The last time i checked my science books Randomness Nothingness and Luck didn't exist as scientific explanations because the Universe is Deterministic Homogeneous and Finite. Physical infinite causes also are out of the table, BVG Theorem actually proved that the Physical Universe had a beginning even if it were quantum fluctuations therefor the cause of the Universe was transcendental. The Fine Tuning of the Universe complements the argument if the transcendental cause was mindless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDMpWcf4ee0

If God doesn't exist objective morals doesn't exist. You will hear atheists say the opposite that morals can exist without God and even without Christ we could reach the same morals. That's wrong and we have an alive paradigm (except USSR). The Atheists Epicurean Philosophers the first atheists (the people that are responsible for modern atheism) one day looked at the sky and said "There are no Gods, lets make our morals based on Nature" AND THEY DID IT! Do you want to know how this ended up? Did they reached the divine word of the Lord Jesus Christ? NOT AT ALL! The Atheists Epicurean Philosophers openly supported slavery, woman abuse, woman inequality, murder, incest, rape, worship of the God Cesar AND EVEN IN THE TIME OF CHRISTIANITY THEY MOCKED THE CHRISTIANS FOR SHOWING MERCY TO THE WEAK BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT MERCY AS A WEAKNESS!!!! They also thought that the Universe is Eternal and said that there is no reason to understand the Universe because it is Eternal and we are mortals!

If God doesn't exist then everything is composed of atoms, everything is materialism therefor everything breaks down to atoms, a rock from a living being has no difference at all! If life came from non life then we can say that even a rock is alive! Or we are dead as rocks (depending the way of view)





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But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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22-08-2014, 02:27 AM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(21-08-2014 06:06 PM)JimFit Wrote:  Some flaws about Atheism.

If God doesn't exist then the Universe was popped out of Nothingness ...
If God doesn't exist objective morals doesn't exist.
If God doesn't exist then everything is composed of atoms,

All easily refuted many times on this forum but I won't waste my time if you aren't going to come back.

But in short:
  • Wrong
  • Not even wrong
  • So?
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22-08-2014, 05:42 AM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(21-08-2014 06:42 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Welcome jimfit!


really? and how do you know that the mythical JC said any of that since he never penned a single word, and no one who wrote of Jesus actually knew him...lets see how much you know about your own faith...don't be scared, I am here to help you.

Jump into the pool, I am here to lead you to the light.

I don't know any serious Historian that denies Jesus Christ Historicy.
I suggest you read this.

http://www.strangenotions.com/an-atheist...rt-1-of-2/

and watch these

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnybQxIgfPw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUQMJR2BP1w

I know academic Historians are wrong and you are right! And you think you are the light...
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22-08-2014, 05:44 AM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(21-08-2014 11:29 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  



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No arguments? How does a Materialist sepperates living from non living?
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22-08-2014, 05:56 AM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(21-08-2014 07:19 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(21-08-2014 06:06 PM)JimFit Wrote:  The Atheists Epicurean Philosophers openly supported slavery, woman abuse, woman inequality, murder, incest, rape, worship of the God Cesar...

Just curious, since you think murder is immoral, what do you think of the genocide that your god committed in Genesis when it drowned every man, woman, child, animal and plant on the planet? Was this a bad thing or was it "just" because your god declared it so?

You are talking to an Orthodox Christian. The story of Noah and the boat is a parable, in the story the righteous people built their salvation (the boat) by being righteous and survived death (the water). This story has an impact to Humanity as a whole, everyone saw Noah to bult a boat but instead of helping him they mocked him and continued their orgies, gluttony, egoistical life. These people that were drown in the story couldn't offer anything to progress of Humanity. Even a scientist must obey to some of the Christian morals to be a good Scientist, he must be humble, meek and to sacrifise lots of his personal life into research, the sacrifise of the ego moves to progress.
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22-08-2014, 06:10 AM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(22-08-2014 05:56 AM)JimFit Wrote:  You are talking to an Orthodox Christian.
Is the orthodox Christian talking to us? Or at us?

Quote:The story of Noah and the boat is a parable, in the story the righteous people built their salvation (the boat) by being righteous and survived death (the water). This story has an impact to Humanity as a whole, everyone saw Noah to bult a boat but instead of helping him they mocked him and continued their orgies, gluttony, egoistical life. These people that were drown in the story couldn't offer anything to progress of Humanity. Even a scientist must obey to some of the Christian morals to be a good Scientist, he must be humble, meek and to sacrifise lots of his personal life into research, the sacrifise of the ego moves to progress.
... Only some of the morals then? Which ones are not essential?

OK, how about God and all his murderous stuff in the old testament - he explictly commands people to kill. Doesn't seem very loving? Consider

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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22-08-2014, 06:11 AM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(22-08-2014 05:56 AM)JimFit Wrote:  
(21-08-2014 07:19 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Just curious, since you think murder is immoral, what do you think of the genocide that your god committed in Genesis when it drowned every man, woman, child, animal and plant on the planet? Was this a bad thing or was it "just" because your god declared it so?

You are talking to an Orthodox Christian. The story of Noah and the boat is a parable, in the story the righteous people built their salvation (the boat) by being righteous and survived death (the water). This story has an impact to Humanity as a whole, everyone saw Noah to bult a boat but instead of helping him they mocked him and continued their orgies, gluttony, egoistical life. These people that were drown in the story couldn't offer anything to progress of Humanity. Even a scientist must obey to some of the Christian morals to be a good Scientist, he must be humble, meek and to sacrifise lots of his personal life into research, the sacrifise of the ego moves to progress.

And the rest of the Bible is parable, too?
How does one discern parable from facts?
Are there any facts in the Bible?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-08-2014, 06:12 AM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(22-08-2014 05:44 AM)JimFit Wrote:  
(21-08-2014 11:29 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  



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No arguments? How does a Materialist sepperates living from non living?

By structure and function. How do you do it?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-08-2014, 06:14 AM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(22-08-2014 06:12 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-08-2014 05:44 AM)JimFit Wrote:  No arguments? How does a Materialist sepperates living from non living?

By structure and function. How do you do it?

Colour of their aura? Analysis of their spirit force? Edibility? Fuckability?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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22-08-2014, 06:54 AM (This post was last modified: 22-08-2014 07:06 AM by TheInquisition.)
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(22-08-2014 05:56 AM)JimFit Wrote:  
(21-08-2014 07:19 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Just curious, since you think murder is immoral, what do you think of the genocide that your god committed in Genesis when it drowned every man, woman, child, animal and plant on the planet? Was this a bad thing or was it "just" because your god declared it so?

You are talking to an Orthodox Christian. The story of Noah and the boat is a parable, in the story the righteous people built their salvation (the boat) by being righteous and survived death (the water). This story has an impact to Humanity as a whole, everyone saw Noah to bult a boat but instead of helping him they mocked him and continued their orgies, gluttony, egoistical life. These people that were drown in the story couldn't offer anything to progress of Humanity. Even a scientist must obey to some of the Christian morals to be a good Scientist, he must be humble, meek and to sacrifise lots of his personal life into research, the sacrifise of the ego moves to progress.

So if god decrees it, it is good. Congratulations, you are on the same moral plane as a terrorist.

If I were to talk to the devil and ask what his plans for the human race were, perhaps he would say a couple of things:

1. I want them all to worship me
2. I'll destroy anyone who doesn't, up to and including the entire planet.

How do you determine the difference between god and Satan?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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