[split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
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22-08-2014, 04:47 PM (This post was last modified: 22-08-2014 04:58 PM by TheInquisition.)
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(22-08-2014 03:45 PM)JimFit Wrote:  
(22-08-2014 03:28 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Before I hammer you some more with irrefutable facts, you aren't like learning challenged are you? i would feel horrible if I was slapping around some child with a flag in his backpack...it seems you have a hard time engaging the information, not that this is really unusual for me, *lays out evidence that discredits the gospels of which belief in jesus is based, creationists simply wave it aside and choose to blindly believe anyway*

Since you seem to be bouncing around avoiding the evidence, lets see what drivel you posited this time....the shroud? really? First I will submit a man named jesus most likely existed, he may have even suffered delusions that he was the son of god, wouldn't be the first guy to do that.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_peo...o_be_Jesus

but was he the zombie invasion causing, walking on water, resurrected son of god? really doubtful. Doubtful because no one bothered to write down these alleged miracles at the time, even though the place was full of literate people and royal historians...no one thought these zombies coming out of the grave, the world shaking and going dark....was something to write about...but 200 years later, voila! some dipstick writes a myth down and suddenly it just must have happened Rolleyes Allow me to expound:

Matthew 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.

Mark 15:33 And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.

Luke 23:44-48 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.

unfortunately for believers, there is not one shred of evidence that this happened...zero, all of the royal scribes, historians, philosophers, and literate people who wrote down and recorded EVERYTHING of any significance, failed to note the whole earth going dark mid-day for three hours...an eclipse lasts about 7.5 mins max, so it wasn’t that, and there were two reknowned historians who recorded each and every eclipse, as well as any other astronomical oddity....nothing, .....zero. Never happened.

Matthew 27:51-53
King James Version (KJV)
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

same problem with this BS story, no one at the time recorded it, fairy tales and myths.

shroud myth:

Nickell, in 1983, and Gregory S. Paul in 2010, separately state that the proportions of the image are not realistic. Paul stated that the face and proportions of the shroud image are impossible, that the figure cannot represent that of an actual person and that the posture was inconsistent. They argued that the forehead on the shroud is too small; and that the arms are too long and of different lengths and that the distance from the eyebrows to the top of the head is non-representative. They concluded that the features can be explained if the shroud is a work of a Gothic artist.

one of MANY huge impossible problems with the fairy tale, I will share a crumb of knowledge with you....

The global flood story requires that only eight people were left alive in 2349 BCE. This does not allow enough time for humans to repopulate the earth. In 2000 BCE only 350 years after the flood the population of the world was 27 million. To go from a population of eight to a population of 27 million in 350 years would require a population growth rate of 136.07%. That is 133% more than the fastest growing portions of the world today.

The Bible also places the date of construction on the Tower of Babel roughly 100 years after the great flood. Saying a population could go from 6 people (Noah and his wife don't count, they didn't have any more children) to enough people to build the Tower of Babel as it is described in the Bible is absurd. This tower was so great that it threatened God, so it must have been greater that the pyramid of Khufu which took 30,000 people to build. Even a growth rate of 500%, which is absurd beyond all imagination, would only produce about half the required people to even begin to think about such a construction project.

science, it is here to wave aside the BS from the faithful. Learn, think, debate.

Now see the slippery slope you create when you say, "this is a parable, but this really happened"...cherry picking scriptures is really a disingenuous way to prove it is true.

"the ressurection of Jesus"

sigh, okay, school time yet again...

I have a small question...what happened on easter? I am not asking for proof. My straightforward request is merely that Christians tell me exactly what happened on the day that their most important doctrine was born.

Without the resurrection, there is no Christianity. Paul wrote, "And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not." (I Corinthians 15:14-15)

The conditions of the question are simple and reasonable. In each of the four Gospels, begin at Easter morning and read to the end of the book: Matthew 28, Mark 16, Luke 24, and John 20-21. Also read Acts 1:3-12 and Paul's tiny version of the story in I Corinthians 15:3-8. These 165 verses can be read in a few moments. Then, without omitting a single detail from these separate accounts, write a simple, chronological narrative of the events between the resurrection and the ascension: what happened first, second, and so on; who said what, when; and where these things happened. Since the gospels do not always give precise times of day, it is permissible to make educated guesses. The narrative does not have to pretend to present a perfect picture--it only needs to give at least one plausible account of all of the facts.

One of the first problems I found is in Matthew 28:2, after two women arrived at the tomb: "And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it." (Let's ignore the fact that no other writer mentioned this "great earthquake.") This story says that the stone was rolled away after the women arrived, in their presence.

Yet Mark's Gospel says it happened before the women arrived: "And they said among themselves, Who shall roll away the stone from the door of the sepulchre? And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great."

Luke writes: "And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre." John agrees. No earthquake, no rolling stone. It is a three-to-one vote: Matthew loses. (Or else the other three are wrong.) The event cannot have happened both before and after they arrived.

Some bible defenders assert that Matthew 28:2 was intended to be understood in the past perfect, showing what had happened before the women arrived. But the entire passage is in the aorist (past) tense, and it reads, in context, like a simple chronological account. Matthew 28:2 begins, "And, behold," not "For, behold." If this verse can be so easily shuffled around, then what is to keep us from putting the flood before the ark, or the crucifixion before the nativity?

Another glaring problem is the fact that in Matthew the first post-resurrection appearance of Jesus to the disciples happened on a mountain in Galilee (not in Jerusalem, as most Christians believe), as predicted by the angel sitting on the newly moved rock: "And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him." This must have been of supreme importance, since this was the message of God via the angel(s) at the tomb. Jesus had even predicted this himself sixty hours earlier, during the Last Supper (Matthew 26:32).

After receiving this angelic message, "Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted." (Matthew 28:16-17) Reading this at face value, and in context, it is clear that Matthew intends this to have been the first appearance. Otherwise, if Jesus had been seen before this time, why did some doubt?

Mark agrees with Matthew's account of the angel's Galilee message, but gives a different story about the first appearance. Luke and John give different angel messages and then radically contradict Matthew. Luke shows the first appearance on the road to Emmaus and then in a room in Jerusalem. John says it happened later than evening in a room, minus Thomas. These angel messages, locations, and travels during the day are impossible to reconcile.

Luke says the post-resurrection appearance happened in Jerusalem, but Matthew says it happened in Galilee, sixty to one hundred miles away. Could they all have traveled 150 miles that day, by foot, trudging up to Galilee for the first appearance, then back to Jerusalem for the evening meal? There is no mention of any horses, but twelve well-conditioned thoroughbreds racing at breakneck speed, as the crow flies, would need about five hours for the trip, without a rest. And during this madcap scenario, could Jesus have found time for a leisurely stroll to Emmaus, accepting, "toward evening," an invitation to dinner? Something is very wrong here.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Of course, none of these contradictions prove that the resurrection did not happen, but they do throw considerable doubt on the reliability of the supposed witnesses. Some of them were wrong. Maybe they were all wrong.

This question could be harder. I could ask why reports of supernatural beings, vanishing and materializing out of thin air, long-dead corpses coming back to life, and people levitating should be given serious consideration at all. Thomas Paine was one of the first to point out that outrageous claims require outrageous proof.
Protestants and Catholics seem to have no trouble applying healthy skepticism to the miracles of Islam, or to the "historical" visit between Joseph Smith and the angel Moroni. Why should Christians treat their own outrageous claims any differently? Why should someone who was not there be any more eager to believe than doubting Thomas, who lived during that time, or the other disciples who said that the women's news from the tomb "seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not" (Luke 24:11)?

I ask this question in all seriousness, because it astounds me how people can believe in something so important and with such passion, yet not have actually looked at what it is they are celebrating/believing in.

You will find that the trip from A-Z via the gospels will lead you in 4 different paths.


Let me know when you are ready for me to lead you to the truth. You see, fact and fiction, reality and religion are two different concepts. One is based in the real world (facts and reality) and the other in your imagination (fiction and religion)....

Faith - the belief in something without evidence.

Delusion: an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder. A belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.

Religion - The embracement of delusion.

Uhoh jimfit, you jumped into the deep side of the pool without your ducky wings on...

Sorry to disapoint you but the earthquake DID HAPPEN

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/a...-date.html

Sorry to dissapoint you again but we have sources outside of the New Testament that darkness DID OCCURED

Thallus wrote a history of the eastern Mediterranean world since the Trojan War. Thallus wrote his regional history in about AD 52.6 Although his original writings have been lost, he is specifically quoted by Julius Africanus, a renowned third century historian. Africanus states, ‘Thallus, in the third book of his histories, explains away the darkness as an eclipse of the sun—unreasonably as it seems to me.’ Apparently, Thallus attempted to ascribe a naturalistic explanation to the darkness during the crucifixion.

Phlegon was a Greek historian who wrote an extensive chronology around AD 137:
In the fourth year of the 202nd Olympiad (i.e., AD 33) there was ‘the greatest eclipse of the sun’ and that ‘it became night in the sixth hour of the day [i.e., noon] so that stars even appeared in the heavens. There was a great earthquake in Bithynia, and many things were overturned in Nicaea.’7

Image Locutus Borg
Solar annular (ring) eclipse; an eclipse could NOT have caused darkness at the crucifixion because they don't occur during the full moon

Annular (ring) eclipse. An eclipse could NOT have caused darkness at the crucifixion because they don’t occur during the full moon.

Phlegon provides powerful confirmation of the Gospel accounts. He identifies the year and the exact time of day. In addition, he writes of an earthquake accompanying the darkness, which is specifically recorded in Matthew’s Gospel (Matthew 27:51). However, like Thallus, he fallaciously attempts to interpret the darkness as a direct effect of a solar eclipse.

Africanus composed a five volume History of the World around AD 221. He was also a pagan convert to Christianity. His historical scholarship so impressed Roman Emperor Alexander Severus that Africanus was entrusted with the official responsibility of building the Emperor’s library at the Pantheon in Rome. Africanus writes:

On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun. For the Hebrews celebrate the passover on the 14th day according to the moon, and the passion of our Savior falls on the day before the passover; but an eclipse of the sun takes place only when the moon comes under the sun. And it cannot happen at any other time but in the interval between the first day of the new moon and the last of the old, that is, at their junction: how then should an eclipse be supposed to happen when the moon is almost diametrically opposite the sun? Let opinion pass however; let it carry the majority with it; and let this portent of the world be deemed an eclipse of the sun, like others a portent only to the eye. Phlegon records that, in the time of Tiberius Caesar, at full moon, there was a full eclipse of the sun from the sixth hour to the ninth—manifestly that one of which we speak. But what has an eclipse in common with an earthquake, the rending rocks, and the resurrection of the dead, and so great a perturbation throughout the universe? Surely no such event as this is recorded for a long period.8

Africanus rightly argues that a solar eclipse could not have occurred during the lunar cycle of the Passover, as this diagram shows. He also questions the link between an eclipse, an earthquake, and the miraculous events recorded in Matthew’s Gospel. Eclipses do not set off earthquakes and bodily resurrections. We also know that eclipses only last for several minutes, not three hours. For Africanus, naturalistic explanations for the darkness at the crucifixion were grossly insufficient, as he showed by applying real science.

Even if the Darkness didn't occur it is not my faith on the darkness but on the teachings of Christ.


The Shroud is authentic

New Research Dates Relic To 1st Century, Time Of Jesus Christ

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/28...71850.html

The story of Noah is a parable.

The other things you said are nonsense.

Did you even read that link you provided? Here's a quote from that story:

The results date the cloth to between 300 B.C. and 400 A.D., per The Telegraph.

It's really bizarre how you think the shroud proves anything. But faith is about believing things with bad or no evidence. Even if the dates are correct (no reason to believe they are because of the large range given) That is a range of 700 years! That's a 4.7% chance that it's even in the 33 year window of Jesus' life time.
Even when I was still a Christian, I really wished Christians would stop going on about this thing, i thought it was embarrassing!

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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22-08-2014, 04:55 PM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(22-08-2014 04:47 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(22-08-2014 03:45 PM)JimFit Wrote:  Sorry to disapoint you but the earthquake DID HAPPEN

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/a...-date.html

Sorry to dissapoint you again but we have sources outside of the New Testament that darkness DID OCCURED

Thallus wrote a history of the eastern Mediterranean world since the Trojan War. Thallus wrote his regional history in about AD 52.6 Although his original writings have been lost, he is specifically quoted by Julius Africanus, a renowned third century historian. Africanus states, ‘Thallus, in the third book of his histories, explains away the darkness as an eclipse of the sun—unreasonably as it seems to me.’ Apparently, Thallus attempted to ascribe a naturalistic explanation to the darkness during the crucifixion.

Phlegon was a Greek historian who wrote an extensive chronology around AD 137:
In the fourth year of the 202nd Olympiad (i.e., AD 33) there was ‘the greatest eclipse of the sun’ and that ‘it became night in the sixth hour of the day [i.e., noon] so that stars even appeared in the heavens. There was a great earthquake in Bithynia, and many things were overturned in Nicaea.’7

Image Locutus Borg
Solar annular (ring) eclipse; an eclipse could NOT have caused darkness at the crucifixion because they don't occur during the full moon

Annular (ring) eclipse. An eclipse could NOT have caused darkness at the crucifixion because they don’t occur during the full moon.

Phlegon provides powerful confirmation of the Gospel accounts. He identifies the year and the exact time of day. In addition, he writes of an earthquake accompanying the darkness, which is specifically recorded in Matthew’s Gospel (Matthew 27:51). However, like Thallus, he fallaciously attempts to interpret the darkness as a direct effect of a solar eclipse.

Africanus composed a five volume History of the World around AD 221. He was also a pagan convert to Christianity. His historical scholarship so impressed Roman Emperor Alexander Severus that Africanus was entrusted with the official responsibility of building the Emperor’s library at the Pantheon in Rome. Africanus writes:

On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun. For the Hebrews celebrate the passover on the 14th day according to the moon, and the passion of our Savior falls on the day before the passover; but an eclipse of the sun takes place only when the moon comes under the sun. And it cannot happen at any other time but in the interval between the first day of the new moon and the last of the old, that is, at their junction: how then should an eclipse be supposed to happen when the moon is almost diametrically opposite the sun? Let opinion pass however; let it carry the majority with it; and let this portent of the world be deemed an eclipse of the sun, like others a portent only to the eye. Phlegon records that, in the time of Tiberius Caesar, at full moon, there was a full eclipse of the sun from the sixth hour to the ninth—manifestly that one of which we speak. But what has an eclipse in common with an earthquake, the rending rocks, and the resurrection of the dead, and so great a perturbation throughout the universe? Surely no such event as this is recorded for a long period.8

Africanus rightly argues that a solar eclipse could not have occurred during the lunar cycle of the Passover, as this diagram shows. He also questions the link between an eclipse, an earthquake, and the miraculous events recorded in Matthew’s Gospel. Eclipses do not set off earthquakes and bodily resurrections. We also know that eclipses only last for several minutes, not three hours. For Africanus, naturalistic explanations for the darkness at the crucifixion were grossly insufficient, as he showed by applying real science.

Even if the Darkness didn't occur it is not my faith on the darkness but on the teachings of Christ.


The Shroud is authentic

New Research Dates Relic To 1st Century, Time Of Jesus Christ

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/28...71850.html

The story of Noah is a parable.

The other things you said are nonsense.

Did you even read that link you provided? Here's a quote from that story:

The results date the cloth to between 300 B.C. and 400 A.D., per The Telegraph.

It's really bizarre how you think the shroud proves anything. But faith is about believing things with bad or no evidence.

no no no they stuck his body in a freezer for 300 years THEN wrapped him in the cloth Laugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out load

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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22-08-2014, 04:56 PM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(22-08-2014 04:47 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(22-08-2014 03:45 PM)JimFit Wrote:  Sorry to disapoint you but the earthquake DID HAPPEN

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/a...-date.html

Sorry to dissapoint you again but we have sources outside of the New Testament that darkness DID OCCURED

Thallus wrote a history of the eastern Mediterranean world since the Trojan War. Thallus wrote his regional history in about AD 52.6 Although his original writings have been lost, he is specifically quoted by Julius Africanus, a renowned third century historian. Africanus states, ‘Thallus, in the third book of his histories, explains away the darkness as an eclipse of the sun—unreasonably as it seems to me.’ Apparently, Thallus attempted to ascribe a naturalistic explanation to the darkness during the crucifixion.

Phlegon was a Greek historian who wrote an extensive chronology around AD 137:
In the fourth year of the 202nd Olympiad (i.e., AD 33) there was ‘the greatest eclipse of the sun’ and that ‘it became night in the sixth hour of the day [i.e., noon] so that stars even appeared in the heavens. There was a great earthquake in Bithynia, and many things were overturned in Nicaea.’7

Image Locutus Borg
Solar annular (ring) eclipse; an eclipse could NOT have caused darkness at the crucifixion because they don't occur during the full moon

Annular (ring) eclipse. An eclipse could NOT have caused darkness at the crucifixion because they don’t occur during the full moon.

Phlegon provides powerful confirmation of the Gospel accounts. He identifies the year and the exact time of day. In addition, he writes of an earthquake accompanying the darkness, which is specifically recorded in Matthew’s Gospel (Matthew 27:51). However, like Thallus, he fallaciously attempts to interpret the darkness as a direct effect of a solar eclipse.

Africanus composed a five volume History of the World around AD 221. He was also a pagan convert to Christianity. His historical scholarship so impressed Roman Emperor Alexander Severus that Africanus was entrusted with the official responsibility of building the Emperor’s library at the Pantheon in Rome. Africanus writes:

On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun. For the Hebrews celebrate the passover on the 14th day according to the moon, and the passion of our Savior falls on the day before the passover; but an eclipse of the sun takes place only when the moon comes under the sun. And it cannot happen at any other time but in the interval between the first day of the new moon and the last of the old, that is, at their junction: how then should an eclipse be supposed to happen when the moon is almost diametrically opposite the sun? Let opinion pass however; let it carry the majority with it; and let this portent of the world be deemed an eclipse of the sun, like others a portent only to the eye. Phlegon records that, in the time of Tiberius Caesar, at full moon, there was a full eclipse of the sun from the sixth hour to the ninth—manifestly that one of which we speak. But what has an eclipse in common with an earthquake, the rending rocks, and the resurrection of the dead, and so great a perturbation throughout the universe? Surely no such event as this is recorded for a long period.8

Africanus rightly argues that a solar eclipse could not have occurred during the lunar cycle of the Passover, as this diagram shows. He also questions the link between an eclipse, an earthquake, and the miraculous events recorded in Matthew’s Gospel. Eclipses do not set off earthquakes and bodily resurrections. We also know that eclipses only last for several minutes, not three hours. For Africanus, naturalistic explanations for the darkness at the crucifixion were grossly insufficient, as he showed by applying real science.

Even if the Darkness didn't occur it is not my faith on the darkness but on the teachings of Christ.


The Shroud is authentic

New Research Dates Relic To 1st Century, Time Of Jesus Christ

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/28...71850.html

The story of Noah is a parable.

The other things you said are nonsense.

Did you even read that link you provided? Here's a quote from that story:

The results date the cloth to between 300 B.C. and 400 A.D., per The Telegraph.

It's really bizarre how you think the shroud proves anything. But faith is about believing things with bad or no evidence.

Wow, that is the first date I have heard that puts it before 1200 CE.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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22-08-2014, 08:40 PM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(22-08-2014 11:50 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  oooh also jimfits, speaking of morals...guess what the largest religiosity group in US prisons is? Christians. Now christians make up about 55% of america...guess what the smallest group is? Atheists at .007% 0.7%...and we make up 35% of america.

Consider

How does your christian morals go again? Laugh out load

Facts, they exist to wave aside the BS rhetoric

Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-08-2014, 08:41 PM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(22-08-2014 11:56 AM)JimFit Wrote:  
(22-08-2014 06:12 AM)Chas Wrote:  By structure and function. How do you do it?

Everything breaks down to atoms, atoms have structure therefor even the rocks are alive? If life came from non life then everything around us is alive.

Wow, you are an idiot. Shocking

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-08-2014, 08:42 PM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(22-08-2014 11:59 AM)JimFit Wrote:  
(22-08-2014 07:17 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  All life has a metabolism.

Does rocks have metabolism?

Wow. You are an idiot. Shocking

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-08-2014, 08:59 PM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(22-08-2014 03:29 PM)JimFit Wrote:  
(22-08-2014 02:29 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  The only feature common to all forms of life is that it has a metabolism.

Rocks don't have a metabolism.

Maybe you need to find out what a metabolism is before asking any more questions about what life is?

In short a metabolism takes in high grade free energy from the environment that can be used to perform work and breaks it down into low grade free energy and most often produces waste. This is used to maintain a consistent pattern that resists entropy on a local scale.

This is a chemical process in all forms of natural life as we know it.

You are obsessed with matter and atoms but the fundamental thing that you are ignoring is the flow of energy through the matter. This is what makes you alive rather than a corpse. This is what makes you able to think rather than ... be ... braindead ... Consider



'Alive' is a human concept to describe a sliding scale of objects that perform dynamic activity but no, not everything is alive because not all material structures manage to harness a thermodynamic gradient to perform work.

I smell new age crap! Its funny how atheists embrace every supernatural claims that hasn't been proven as a fact. First of all it has been debunked that our minds are just chemical reactions, Consciousness derives from deeper levels than chemicals.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/201...085105.htm

Except that cockroaches have the same microtubules in their brains. How conscious are cockroaches?

That theory is not well supported, and most certainly not by physicists who know a thing or two about the scale of quantum effects.

Quote:Energy exists in every state of matter, i really don't see what's the difference from our material bodies to a material rock if it is energy.

If you can't see the difference between a static structure and a dynamic one, then you really are an idiot.

Quote:To think our minds as chemical machines has implications, i suggest you to read this..

http://www.jolij.com/?p=230

His "four classes of mind/matter-theories" is bullshit. He has created a strawman argument.

His opinion of Randi's challenge clearly demonstrates a misunderstanding (at best) of the challenge. Randi will give a million dollars to anyone who proves their claims of the paranormal - not his.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-08-2014, 09:07 PM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(22-08-2014 03:45 PM)JimFit Wrote:  The Shroud is authentic

New Research Dates Relic To 1st Century, Time Of Jesus Christ

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/28...71850.html

The story of Noah is a parable.

The other things you said are nonsense.

Did you actually read that? If so, did you understand it?

"The first two tests used infrared light and Raman spectroscopy, respectively, while the third employed a test analyzing different mechanical parameters relating to voltage."

That is baloney - those are not tests that date an artifact.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-08-2014, 09:46 PM
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(22-08-2014 09:07 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-08-2014 03:45 PM)JimFit Wrote:  The Shroud is authentic

New Research Dates Relic To 1st Century, Time Of Jesus Christ

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/28...71850.html

The story of Noah is a parable.

The other things you said are nonsense.

Did you actually read that? If so, did you understand it?

"The first two tests used infrared light and Raman spectroscopy, respectively, while the third employed a test analyzing different mechanical parameters relating to voltage."

That is baloney - those are not tests that date an artifact.

What kind of twit would use spectroscopy as a method of dating?!

Then again, I suppose if they use a real method then they'd have to concede that the real methods actually work.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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22-08-2014, 11:06 PM (This post was last modified: 22-08-2014 11:14 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: [split] From Fundamental Evangelicalism to Orthodox Christianity to Atheism
(22-08-2014 12:50 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Faith is a failed epistemology. Showing why faith fails has been done before and done well. (Bering 2011, Harris 2004, Loftus 2010, 2013, McCormick 2012, Schick & Vaughn 2008, Shermer 1997, 2011, Smith 1979, STenger & Barker 2012, Torres 2012, Wade 2009 etc)

I have to give an endorsement of Loftus on this one. The Christian Delusion: Why Faith Fails (2010) is a powerful anthology, bring together a slew of scholars including; Dr. David Eller, Dr. Valerie Tarico, Dr. Jason Long, Edward T. Babinski, Paul Tobin, Dr. Hector Avalos, Dr. Robert M. Price, and Dr. Richard Carrier. It's a good read because it covers a broad range, split into 5 sections, each containing 3 to 4 chapters written by a different author each with their own perspective.

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