[split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
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13-06-2016, 09:03 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(13-06-2016 08:25 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Ugh. This crap again? Does this horse ever die?

No. This horse is some kind of lich.

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

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13-06-2016, 09:04 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(13-06-2016 08:45 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 08:34 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  Why should I care? I'm only interested in what could potentially happen in my own house. I live within throwing distance of a prison, by the way. Now more than likely if a prisoner were to escape (Which has happened once, that I know of), they won't stop at the closest house. But whatever, I'm not taking that chance prison or no. If a crazy person busts in here and I have no gun, I'm pretty much fucked. I don't see how me having a gun in my house is preventing society from functioning.

So you have a shotgun, right? You know... so you can go hunting and such when you're not using it to kill humans?

I don't mind the idea of a gun for protection. But an automatic assault rifle or SMG is a bit unnecessary

Those aren't the issue. Is this an intentional straw man?

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13-06-2016, 09:08 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(13-06-2016 08:28 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 08:21 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  lol

Thanks for posting this, I'll have to read it in more detail.

But just skimming Alabama and learned that it's legal to open carry a gun.

As long as it's holstered, and you're not driving in a car -- where you need a conceal carry permit.

Quote:Open carry is generally permitted, but handgun must be securely contained in a holster (belt, ankle, or shoulder). However, open carry in a vehicle without a concealed carry license is prohibited. As of August 1, 2013, the law states that: "It shall be a rebuttable presumption that the mere carrying of a visible pistol, holstered or secured, in public place, in and of itself, is not disorderly conduct."

Fascinating shit right there.

The point being that there are plenty of laws egulating gun ownership and carriage here in America.
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13-06-2016, 09:21 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(13-06-2016 08:39 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  Every time I see this:
A- "Assault weapons aren't for hunting, they're made to kill humans"
B- "They're tools. Don't blame the tools. Taking our guns won't make things better"

I just start thinking about other weapons that aren't for hunting... like tactical nukes. Are we OK with getting those into the hands of every law abiding citizen because they're just tools?

Every time I see this, I think, "Slippery slopes are slippery."
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13-06-2016, 11:01 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(13-06-2016 09:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 07:06 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Thanks for the info, I didn't realise.
Seems to be an improvement on US though. Isn't it that anyone that can buy a gun, can also buy AR-15?

Is that just odd phrasing or do you not know that an AR-15 is a gun? Consider
Huh.
In NZ if you have a fire arms licence this does not allow you to purchase an AR-15. You also need an E endorsement on your licence. So most people in NZ who can buy a firearm cannot buy an AR-15.
(13-06-2016 09:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  
Quote:Yes, and high capacity magazines, with an action that allows a shooter to keep shooting without losing aim seems to be a potential for a disaster.

It does not allow "a shooter to keep shooting without losing aim".
You're joking right?
You pull the trigger, sure there is some kickback but your face remains on the stock, your eye remains looking at the sights, your finger remains near the trigger.
As opposed to a bolt action where you have to remove your have from the trigger and work the bolt. While you are working the bolt, you are moving the gun and losing sight of your target.
But of course you know this, you're being difficult on purpose.
(13-06-2016 09:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  
Quote:Personally I think a single shot, bolt action is sufficient for sport and hunting.
I understand that people want more, but I feel it is a small consecion for public safety.

A single shot bolt action rifle is not sufficient, it is not a small concession.
Many people hunt with bolt action rifles. Generally if you miss the animal runs away, you don't get a second shot. If you maim it and it can't run, you have time to finish it off. If you maim it and it runs away, well that is better than the alternative of having someone with 20 shots being able to fire off into a crowd of people.
BTW, do you really need 20 shots. If one isn't enough for you, how about 2? When have you ever taken 20 shots at the same deer. Oh Dear!

(13-06-2016 09:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  
Quote:This is an interesting argument and seeks to prioritise effort for gun control, but doesn't seem to address the issue on whether semi-automatic rifles ought to be legal or not. It's more of an attempt to avoid this decision by distracting us on other decisions.

He is pointing out that semi-automatic rifles aren't the problem. How did you miss that?
He didn't say that at all. Some guy recently killed 50 people with a semi-automatic, are you saying that isn't a problem?

(13-06-2016 09:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  
Quote:But anyways, this aspect makes the debate on handguns more difficult. It also means that the "bad" guys can also carry around the convenient hand gun. So you make it easier for them and then you are more likely to be in a "shoot-out". Who wins, nobody knows.

What is your argument? They already carry semi-auto handguns. Consider
Really, that's quite an assumption to make.
We are arguing for gun restrictions making guns less available in society. The more prevalent guns are the more crim's will have them. It is silly to assume that gun laws only impact people that obey laws.
(13-06-2016 09:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  
Quote:Next in line is the semi-automatic rifle.

Why? As pointed out above, they are not the problem.
Tell that to the loved ones of the 50 who just recently died.
(13-06-2016 09:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  More than "a couple of seconds" and that is often too long for an effective follow-up shot.
Too bad, better your maimed animal leaves than then giving a would be mass murderer access to an effective weapon for his purposes.
(13-06-2016 09:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  
Quote:The benefit is though, that it makes it hard for a nutter to do a mass shooting if they need to take a couple of seconds to reload after each shot. This is a concession. For public safety, give up on the convenience of an AR-15 for self use.

The only place this argument leads is to the ban of any repeating action firearm .
I don't see a problem with that.
But you do have the option of a double barrel gun, giving you two shots, should be enough to scare away a wouldbe attacker.
(13-06-2016 09:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  It is because the only place this argument leads is to the ban of any repeating action firearm. And a single-shot firearm is insufficient for self-defense or hunting.
Bolt action guns are fine for hunting and fine for self defense. A four shooter pistol is fine for self defense, but remember if guns are prevalent in society then you are more likely to be shot. Reduce the guns then you are safer without a gun than being in a society rife with guns.
Quite frankly, you don't want to get in a gun fight even with a gun, your chances of survival are slim.
(13-06-2016 09:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  Your speculations are ignorant and insulting.
The bait and wait in the garage actually happened FFS.
Do you deny that some people get excited about their American right to have a gun?
Which bit in specific did you find speculation or insulting?
Why would it insult you? Do you think I said that Chas would do this? Did I even say that most gun owners behave this way?
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14-06-2016, 02:24 AM (This post was last modified: 14-06-2016 03:34 AM by JDog554.)
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(13-06-2016 07:32 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 05:17 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  People keep saying this and you are wrong.

September 9, 2014. Geoff Hunt shot and killed his wife and 3 kids before commiting suicide.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/hunt-family-mu...k2vo5.html

Not exactly 4+ but 2011 Hectorville siege, 6 shot, 3 killed and 3 injured including two police officers.

http://www.news.com.au/national/armed-si...6047448020

Clutching at straws with these mate. My definition of 4+ deaths is the official definition in both the US and Australia. There's really no point in citing cases where four or less people have been killed, as we'd have a list as long as your arm.

At any rate, is that really the best you can do when comparing mass Aussie shooting figures with the US? Not even one single shooting near double figures in twenty years?
Wife + 3 kids + self = 5 mate. I am not debating that Australia is just as bad, notice I only quoted that single section of your post because I am only responding to that part, not the rest.

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14-06-2016, 03:56 AM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
I'll just leave this here, as I usually do in most gun-related threads in here.

Greeks don't generally have guns at home so they're less likely to be able to defend themselves against an armed intruder. However, since guns are illegal here, it is also quite unlikely for the intruder to carry a real gun (just a couple of days ago a man was telling my boyfriend how he robbed dozens of banks with a fake gun).

If someone has set their mind on it, they will kill. No matter the weapon. The thing is, a gun is extremely easy to just grab and shoot in the heat of the moment, considering that if you actually have a gun at home, you probably know how to use it. How easy is it to grab a knife and stab someone to death though?

Just a thought.

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14-06-2016, 04:04 AM (This post was last modified: 14-06-2016 04:13 AM by WeAreTheCosmos.)
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(13-06-2016 09:21 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 08:39 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  Every time I see this:
A- "Assault weapons aren't for hunting, they're made to kill humans"
B- "They're tools. Don't blame the tools. Taking our guns won't make things better"

I just start thinking about other weapons that aren't for hunting... like tactical nukes. Are we OK with getting those into the hands of every law abiding citizen because they're just tools?

Every time I see this, I think, "Slippery slopes are slippery."

You're right. Grenades then... Tactical nukes lead to neutron bombs and such, but grenades aren't a slippery, gateway explosive... unless they're put in automatic grenade launchers..
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14-06-2016, 04:11 AM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(13-06-2016 09:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 08:45 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  So you have a shotgun, right? You know... so you can go hunting and such when you're not using it to kill humans?

I don't mind the idea of a gun for protection. But an automatic assault rifle or SMG is a bit unnecessary

Those aren't the issue. Is this an intentional straw man?

So what's the issue... Clip capacity that's more than, say, 6 rounds?

The fact that we aren't all armed at all times in the club?

That someone hasn't built a brain to brain interface which can share thought processes themselves to ensure that each party involved thoroughly understands the other's point of view, and resolving conflicting opinion?
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14-06-2016, 04:22 AM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(14-06-2016 03:56 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  I'll just leave this here, as I usually do in most gun-related threads in here.

Greeks don't generally have guns at home so they're less likely to be able to defend themselves against an armed intruder. However, since guns are illegal here, it is also quite unlikely for the intruder to carry a real gun (just a couple of days ago a man was telling my boyfriend how he robbed dozens of banks with a fake gun).

If someone has set their mind on it, they will kill. No matter the weapon. The thing is, a gun is extremely easy to just grab and shoot in the heat of the moment, considering that if you actually have a gun at home, you probably know how to use it. How easy is it to grab a knife and stab someone to death though?

Just a thought.

My thoughts are that a pump shotgun with a limited capacity is great for home protection AND hunting... and you (or the person who steals it from you) won't shoot 100 people with it unless you're in the coma ward or something.
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