[split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
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15-06-2016, 01:42 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(15-06-2016 01:05 PM)morondog Wrote:  And it's not like in other countries with different gun laws gun crime is absent.

Agreed.

However, France has extremely strict and restrictive gun control laws. There is no right to bear arms in France. I am reminded of the Charlie Hebdo massacre and the Paris nightclub massacre. The French president didn't get on TV and talk about how they need more gun control, did he? I mean, they're pretty much maxed out on gun control laws, aren't they? But that didn't prevent the attacks, did it?

So, is it about "gun control", or should we be looking at something else?
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15-06-2016, 01:48 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(15-06-2016 01:42 PM)TheBear Wrote:  However, France has extremely strict and restrictive gun control laws. There is no right to bear arms in France. I am reminded of the Charlie Hebdo massacre and the Paris nightclub massacre. The French president didn't get on TV and talk about how they need more gun control, did he? I mean, they're pretty much maxed out on gun control laws, aren't they? But that didn't prevent the attacks, did it?

So, is it about "gun control", or should we be looking at something else?
This is like saying that you know someone who never smoked a day in their lives and they still got lung cancer. So you may as well smoke cause there is no difference.
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15-06-2016, 01:50 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(15-06-2016 01:48 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(15-06-2016 01:42 PM)TheBear Wrote:  However, France has extremely strict and restrictive gun control laws. There is no right to bear arms in France. I am reminded of the Charlie Hebdo massacre and the Paris nightclub massacre. The French president didn't get on TV and talk about how they need more gun control, did he? I mean, they're pretty much maxed out on gun control laws, aren't they? But that didn't prevent the attacks, did it?

So, is it about "gun control", or should we be looking at something else?
This is like saying that you know someone who never smoked a day in their lives and they still got lung cancer. So you may as well smoke cause there is no difference.

That's a total misrepresentation of what I said or implied.
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15-06-2016, 01:52 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(15-06-2016 01:39 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Customer: I'm having trouble with the program?
You: Don't you mean application?
Customer: Yeah, trouble using the application?
You: OK
Customer: Yeah, I move my mouse to the top of the screen and..
You: No you don't move your mouse to the top of the screen.
Customer: Ah, umm, yes that's what I'm doing.
You: No your not, you use your mouse to control the cursor.
Customer: Um, Ok, I move my cursor to the top of the screen.
You: It's not the screen though, you know that eh?
Customer: Arggh, um, I move the cursor to the top.
You: Top of what?
Customer: FFS, can I have another support person please?
You: We are support Engineers.
Customer: <hangs up>

Laugh out load


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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15-06-2016, 01:58 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(15-06-2016 01:48 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(15-06-2016 01:42 PM)TheBear Wrote:  However, France has extremely strict and restrictive gun control laws. There is no right to bear arms in France. I am reminded of the Charlie Hebdo massacre and the Paris nightclub massacre. The French president didn't get on TV and talk about how they need more gun control, did he? I mean, they're pretty much maxed out on gun control laws, aren't they? But that didn't prevent the attacks, did it?

So, is it about "gun control", or should we be looking at something else?
This is like saying that you know someone who never smoked a day in their lives and they still got lung cancer. So you may as well smoke cause there is no difference.

No, it's more like saying cancer has many causes, many of which interact to bring about the tumor, and it behooves us to examine them all.
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15-06-2016, 02:08 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(15-06-2016 01:58 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(15-06-2016 01:48 PM)Stevil Wrote:  This is like saying that you know someone who never smoked a day in their lives and they still got lung cancer. So you may as well smoke cause there is no difference.

No, it's more like saying cancer has many causes, many of which interact to bring about the tumor, and it behooves us to examine them all.
There are many reason why criminals have access to guns, having a mass of guns in the country is only one cause, but working on that cause helps.
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15-06-2016, 02:49 PM (This post was last modified: 15-06-2016 02:53 PM by morondog.)
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(15-06-2016 01:42 PM)TheBear Wrote:  
(15-06-2016 01:05 PM)morondog Wrote:  And it's not like in other countries with different gun laws gun crime is absent.

Agreed.

However, France has extremely strict and restrictive gun control laws. There is no right to bear arms in France. I am reminded of the Charlie Hebdo massacre and the Paris nightclub massacre. The French president didn't get on TV and talk about how they need more gun control, did he? I mean, they're pretty much maxed out on gun control laws, aren't they? But that didn't prevent the attacks, did it?

So, is it about "gun control", or should we be looking at something else?

I don't think gun control will prevent terrorist attacks, just like I don't think licensing drivers will prevent a determined person from driving through a wall. Terrorists have plenty of time and motivation to plan and carry out attacks. What the anti-gun lobby wants as far as I can tell is a. to cut down on gun violence overall and b. to stop the mass shootings that make the news every few weeks in the USA and *nowhere else in the world* - the civilized world at any rate.

Do you think your gun laws are inherently perfect as they are, or could they be tweaked?

ETA: In response to whatever your point is with the French attacks - you already said it: French gun control is strict. So of course there was no need to bang on about the gun laws being the problem. The problem in that case was terrorism. Yes OK, people fire the guns that kill other people, but guns make it easy. If they do not make it easy, why are armies around the world armed with guns and not for example, kitchen scissors?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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15-06-2016, 03:05 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(15-06-2016 01:50 PM)TheBear Wrote:  
(15-06-2016 01:48 PM)Stevil Wrote:  This is like saying that you know someone who never smoked a day in their lives and they still got lung cancer. So you may as well smoke cause there is no difference.

That's a total misrepresentation of what I said or implied.
That's the way I read it/interpreted it, sorry to have got the wrong end of the stick here.
Perhaps you were wondering why people jump to the conclusion that it was lax gun control that caused the problem?

People jump to that conclusion because for many people, that is the elephant in the room. The vase is broken on the floor, and top of mind to us is the elephant moving around, bumping into things. It's not a smoking gun, and we could be guilty of jumping to the wrong conclusion. Perhaps one of the kids snuck into the room and broke the vase while we weren't watching. It's possible. But, it is only natural for many people to focus on the elephant with a highly suspecting eye.
So, we say perhaps this tragedy may not have happened if guns weren't so easy to come by. In France the elephant of lax gun control doesn't exist, so people don't point to that.
Were as a gun enthusiast might not see this elephant. For them perhaps the elephant is that this place "school", "movie theater" etc was a "no guns allowed zone".


If I have got your point wrong on this second attempt, can you please offer clarification rather than just tell me that I am wrong?
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15-06-2016, 04:00 PM (This post was last modified: 15-06-2016 04:36 PM by Chas.)
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(15-06-2016 01:39 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(14-06-2016 10:42 PM)Chas Wrote:  It is not a "tactic", it is education. If you want to have a useful discussion, get your facts straight.
And don't get all pissy when you are corrected.
It's like pulling teeth, try to have a conversation with you. You show no interest what-so-ever in getting the point, in flowing the conversation.



(14-06-2016 10:46 PM)Chas Wrote:  I don't shut it down, I correct the terminology and await a better phrased question.
I am not going to try to guess the questioners intent because I'm not so arrogant as to presume. Drinking Beverage
You don't need to wait. Try engaging a few brain cells, trying, from the context working out what the person actually means.

It was obvious from morondog's statement that he meant "semi-automatic" even though he said "automatic". From the context, online biker was saying they ought to use a shotgun. Moron dog was basically asking why they don't use a shot gun.
From my discussion it was obvoius I was pointing out the difference between having a semi auto allowing you to take aim quicker than what a bolt action allows, but you get all pissy about the use of the word "aim"

Which part of "I don't presume to know what they mean" do you not understand? Consider

Quote:Honestly, I could imagine you doing user support.
Customer: I'm having trouble with the program?
You: Don't you mean application?
Customer: Yeah, trouble using the application?
You: OK
Customer: Yeah, I move my mouse to the top of the screen and..
You: No you don't move your mouse to the top of the screen.
Customer: Ah, umm, yes that's what I'm doing.
You: No your not, you use your mouse to control the cursor.
Customer: Um, Ok, I move my cursor to the top of the screen.
You: It's not the screen though, you know that eh?
Customer: Arggh, um, I move the cursor to the top.
You: Top of what?
Customer: FFS, can I have another support person please?
You: We are support Engineers.
Customer: <hangs up>

Very amusing, but I actually do customer support. Successfully.

Customer support is very different from dealing with the repeated willful ignorance of many anti-gun people.
Just listen and learn so that you can make yourself understood.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-06-2016, 04:25 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(13-06-2016 08:54 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I've been saying for a while that a Paris style attack would happen on American soil. I predicted that if it happened before the November election the republicans would win the white house. I've also said many times that the time for games is over. We could ban and confiscate every single gun in the U.S., the terrorists would just get them from Mexico and continue the attacks. Gun laws and a gun ban in France didn't stop 120+ people from being killed in Paris.

No my friends, the time has come. The U.S. is at war. American citizens are now the combatants. These attacks will continue. You can choose to stay disarmed and hope that someone around you will draw their weapon to protect you. Or you can protect yourself. I choose to carry a gun everywhere I go. Terrorists will continue to attack places where unarmed people congregate. It's time to send the message that we will return fire.

If you live in a location that doesn't allow concealed carry, it's time to demand the laws be changed or its time to move. Don't patronize businesses that are "gun free zones." Damn people we are Americans. Stand up for yourself. Do not be victims. Don't just lay there and piss on yourself as the terrorists mow down your family and friends.

Buy a firearm. Learn how to use it. Protect yourself. The criminals and terrorists will never disarm. It's us or them.
You are a legend in your own mind. Bowing
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