[split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
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15-06-2016, 11:22 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(15-06-2016 08:39 PM)Chas Wrote:  You can't intelligently discuss that when you misunderstand how those firearms behave.
You continue trying to argue while being willfully ignorant.

You are the one who brought differences in aiming into the discussion as an important point, yet you refuse to listen to corrections of your misunderstandings.
I've fired both style of gun. I've felt it, experienced it. I know what its like.

I have no idea why you have been so hung up on the "aim" thing. But anyway, point was missed, and you have no interest in discussing it with me. All you want to do is sidetrack and "educate" me on what is meant by "aim", or "recoil" or "sight picture".

Aiming is a process, not a thing. You point the gun in a desired direction, you look along the sights, if its a rifle your face is against the stock of the gun, the stock butt is pressed up against your shoulder. One finger on or near the trigger, the other hand supporting the gun. If you are free standing i.e. gun isn't rested on a stationary object then the gun moves slightly, never still, the sights are never exactly pointed at one spot. You try and relax, you try to slow breathing, slowly squeeze the trigger but not in a jerky fashion. Once the trigger is pulled and the bullet is fired, you get a recoil, bullet energy in one direction, gun energy in the other, fulled by the power of the explosive. Gun moves, bullet moves.

For a bolt action you take hand off the trigger, open the bolt, slide it back, bullet casing comes out, you put another bullet in then slide the bolt back in, take aim again and fire.

For a semi-auto, you keep hand on/near the trigger (obviously releasing from the firing position), the casing pops out after firing, you aim again and activate the trigger again.

I mean FFS how is this level of detail at all relevant to the point I'm trying to discuss?

Again, I'm sure you will read the above and find something not entirely accurate and focus on that rather than focus on the actual point being made.

The semi auto is much easier to keep shooting at targets in quick succession, much easier to keep the gun pointed at or near the target.

It's just pointless, discussing this stuff with you.
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15-06-2016, 11:46 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(15-06-2016 08:42 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  I'm thinking that if a person is willing to break the law against killing a man, a law against owning his a gun is not much of a deterrent.
Having laws means that the fellon may not be able to carry the gun around, certain, if the gun is visable the police may have reasonable grounds to approach the guy.
For example in NZ you can't wander around in public places with a gun, if you do, someone will probably notify the police and you will be approached.

If for some reason the police discover a gun in your possession they might have the right to investigate that, see if you have legal rights to possess a gun, if not they take it off you, arrest you or what not.

But gun restrictions do restrict the amount of guns in a country, which means less guns to steal, harder to get guns through borders etc.

It also takes away crimes of passion, anger or despair, where a person is in a temporary emotional state and didn't have time to plan to get a gun.


(15-06-2016 08:42 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  As for a mass of guns being publicly available, it's true, Pandora's Box has already been opened; there are well over three hundred million guns in America as I write. Do you have a reasonable solution to closing it? Or is this simply Internet railing on your part? Let's hear your proposed solution.
I'm not an American, and I don't default to America when discussing gun control. I look at the two issues separately, sure if you are focused on America only, then yeah, perhaps guns are everywhere, perhaps there may be no way to unclose that box.

(15-06-2016 08:42 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  I'm open to smart conversation, but I've yet to see it from you.
Sure, I'm not getting up on a pulpit and proclaiming to be smart.

(15-06-2016 08:42 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  I've yet to see you acknowledge your rudeness to me, for that matter.

I'll wait, I suppose ... over to you.
Really, you want an apology or something?
I'm not a polite person, and I have no idea why you were responding to me about a "sight-picture" and discussing recoil.
I had already stated that there would be some kickback. I have no idea why the focus was still on recoil. Of course both guns experience recoil, how does that progress the discussion?

Honestly the point was that there is a difference between a bolt action and a semi-automatic with regards to ability to fire in succession at a target. Can't people just admit that there is a difference and that semi-auto is quicker and easier to stay focussed on or near the target?

Or perhaps we can talk about recoil again, that would be fun.
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16-06-2016, 05:24 AM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(15-06-2016 11:22 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(15-06-2016 08:39 PM)Chas Wrote:  You can't intelligently discuss that when you misunderstand how those firearms behave.
You continue trying to argue while being willfully ignorant.

You are the one who brought differences in aiming into the discussion as an important point, yet you refuse to listen to corrections of your misunderstandings.
I've fired both style of gun. I've felt it, experienced it. I know what its like.

I have no idea why you have been so hung up on the "aim" thing. But anyway, point was missed, and you have no interest in discussing it with me. All you want to do is sidetrack and "educate" me on what is meant by "aim", or "recoil" or "sight picture".

Aiming is a process, not a thing. You point the gun in a desired direction, you look along the sights, if its a rifle your face is against the stock of the gun, the stock butt is pressed up against your shoulder. One finger on or near the trigger, the other hand supporting the gun. If you are free standing i.e. gun isn't rested on a stationary object then the gun moves slightly, never still, the sights are never exactly pointed at one spot. You try and relax, you try to slow breathing, slowly squeeze the trigger but not in a jerky fashion. Once the trigger is pulled and the bullet is fired, you get a recoil, bullet energy in one direction, gun energy in the other, fulled by the power of the explosive. Gun moves, bullet moves.

For a bolt action you take hand off the trigger, open the bolt, slide it back, bullet casing comes out, you put another bullet in then slide the bolt back in, take aim again and fire.

For a semi-auto, you keep hand on/near the trigger (obviously releasing from the firing position), the casing pops out after firing, you aim again and activate the trigger again.

I mean FFS how is this level of detail at all relevant to the point I'm trying to discuss?

Again, I'm sure you will read the above and find something not entirely accurate and focus on that rather than focus on the actual point being made.

The semi auto is much easier to keep shooting at targets in quick succession, much easier to keep the gun pointed at or near the target.

It's just pointless, discussing this stuff with you.

You made an absolute statement that one doesn't lose aim with a semi-auto; that was incorrect and I pointed that out.
You are the one making a big deal of this.

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16-06-2016, 05:28 AM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
So it appears that America is not giving up it's guns (I certainly want to keep mine). Perhaps the best solution at this point is for America to quit living in denial and give up it's "sitting duck zones". Mass shooters seek out "soft targets" where they know no one will shoot back. We need to ban places where no one can legally carry a gun. It's a disaster waiting to happen and it strips people of their right to defend themselves.

I could even get behind a required basic firearms competency course for carrying a gun.

Stevil, why so hung up on semi-auto? Do you want to ban all semi-autos?
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16-06-2016, 06:51 AM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
Gee, who knew that the Ohio National Guard would've been to cowardly to shoot those students at Kent State had the students only been armed?

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16-06-2016, 12:56 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)




To me, the solution is obvious.

Drinking Beverage

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16-06-2016, 01:03 PM (This post was last modified: 16-06-2016 01:35 PM by Stevil.)
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(16-06-2016 05:24 AM)Chas Wrote:  You made an absolute statement that one doesn't lose aim with a semi-auto; that was incorrect and I pointed that out.
You are the one making a big deal of this.
I made no such thing. At no point did I ever state that the spot that your cross hairs is pointing at never moves even during recoil.

Your interpretation of what I said was absolutely anally retentive and completely misses the point of conversation.

I'm making a big deal of the fact that it is impossible to talk to you without you getting anal on this stuff. You do it because you think it gives you superiority over the non gun enthusiasts who want to talk about public safety. You want to shut them down, and you do it by being anal over gun jargon.

Edit: with a semi-auto there is a very brief split second moment where the shooter is incapable of performing the aiming process because an explosion is going off and the gun is jolting backwards and upwards. Besides that very brief moment the shooter is spending all their time on the aiming processes, and sometimes, simultaneously pulling the trigger.
With the bolt action the shooter after dealing with the recoil, also spends time reloading the gun, while they reload they are not so focused on aiming.

FFS, so anal.
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16-06-2016, 01:11 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(16-06-2016 05:28 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  Stevil, why so hung up on semi-auto? Do you want to ban all semi-autos?
Why not?

But, there are different aspects.
A semi auto that can hold a large magazine present a bigger threat than a semi auto such as a six shooter revolver.

It's all about public safety and also considering the need or convenience of rapid fire.

A hunter does not need to fire 30 bullets in succession and neither does a person defending themselves from a would be attacker.
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16-06-2016, 01:21 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(16-06-2016 12:56 PM)DLJ Wrote:  



To me, the solution is obvious.

Drinking Beverage

BINGO

"Its the mentally ill" dodge.
"Its the terrorists, while they ignore Roof and the clinic shooter" dodge.
"The laws don't work anyway, but we want them out of the wrong hands"
"More guns".

ALL FUCKING BULLSHIT dodges.

There IS reason we have way too much gun death in this country, and that reason is we are being held hostage by one party and one industry lobby. PERIOD!

I agree, our amount of gun death is not normal, and only a selfish prick would find it acceptable.

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16-06-2016, 01:44 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(16-06-2016 01:21 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(16-06-2016 12:56 PM)DLJ Wrote:  



To me, the solution is obvious.

Drinking Beverage

BINGO

"Its the mentally ill" dodge.
"Its the terrorists, while they ignore Roof and the clinic shooter" dodge.
"The laws don't work anyway, but we want them out of the wrong hands"
"More guns".

ALL FUCKING BULLSHIT dodges.

There IS reason we have way too much gun death in this country, and that reason is we are being held hostage by one party and one industry lobby. PERIOD!

I agree, our amount of gun death is not normal, and only a selfish prick would find it acceptable.

And your dodge - is you can't seem to come up with a workable plan....

You blather on about "being held hostage blah, blah blah...... " and rail on about gun manufacturers "Flooding the market with guns" ----

AND YET--

When we ask you for your solution ---

It fails to materialize......

SO ---

Do you have a workable solution --- or do you just like ranting and raving????

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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