[split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
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16-06-2016, 06:18 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(16-06-2016 05:29 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  
(16-06-2016 03:58 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I kind of get what you're saying but WW1 was a hundred years ago now. Such a gun is unlikely to be a "registered" weapon anyway. I know my late grandfather's WW2 Luger didn't require it (spoils of war and all that).

The government doesn't really care about weapons older than 50 years old...and already have regulations in place to protect antique gun collectors.

From the ATF webpage:

A regulation implementing Federal firearms laws, 27 CFR §478.11, defines Curio or Relic (C&R) firearms as those which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons.

I don't know, Moms. You'll have to ask Stevil and Brian37 if you can have an exemption for your grandfather's semi-automatic handgun. Ask them if I can have one for the M1 Garand my father carried in Korea while you're at it, please.

I don't support bans of anything. I've already pointed out in this thread and others that other countries that don't have gun violence problems on the scale we do here in US allow these type of weapons. I think we could adopt laws similar to theirs including better background checks and accountability. There are a lot of gun control measures I would support, but if all the other side will accept are bans then no, I don't think we can find a middle ground because they won't accept a middle ground.

For the record I don't support rounding up all the guns...

I think while a nice idea in theory, in practice it would take decades to make that any type of reality. It also doesn't help us deal with our violence, poverty, mental illness issues.

I really worry about gun owners in general -- I probably wouldn't worry about living next door to you or Chas.

But there are people who buy guns to make a point that they can and make a big deal about it. Those people I do worry more about. There was a person, I used to know (years ago), her child was on spectrum for autism (he's a bit like my son so we had bonded over that). Her child had serious issues with impulse control and became very violent (my son didn't exactly share those particular issues).

One day I saw on fb pictures of her son learning to shoot a rifle. One of those badass looking ones...AR15 type. With the caption they were exercising their constitutional right.

I just unfriended her and blocked her so I don't see anything she posts (even via mutual friends).

I did hear from someone else she did suddenly get rid of the guns in her home -- but I can only speculate why.


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16-06-2016, 06:29 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(16-06-2016 06:18 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(16-06-2016 05:29 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  I don't know, Moms. You'll have to ask Stevil and Brian37 if you can have an exemption for your grandfather's semi-automatic handgun. Ask them if I can have one for the M1 Garand my father carried in Korea while you're at it, please.

I don't support bans of anything. I've already pointed out in this thread and others that other countries that don't have gun violence problems on the scale we do here in US allow these type of weapons. I think we could adopt laws similar to theirs including better background checks and accountability. There are a lot of gun control measures I would support, but if all the other side will accept are bans then no, I don't think we can find a middle ground because they won't accept a middle ground.

For the record I don't support rounding up all the guns...

I think while a nice idea in theory, in practice it would take decades to make that any type of reality. It also doesn't help us deal with our violence, poverty, mental illness issues.

I really worry about gun owners in general -- I probably wouldn't worry about living next door to you or Chas.

But there are people who buy guns to make a point that they can and make a big deal about it. Those people I do worry more about. There was a person, I used to know (years ago), her child was on spectrum for autism (he's a bit like my son so we had bonded over that). Her child had serious issues with impulse control and became very violent (my son didn't exactly share those particular issues).

One day I saw on fb pictures of her son learning to shoot a rifle. One of those badass looking ones...AR15 type. With the caption they were exercising their constitutional right.

I just unfriended her and blocked her so I don't see anything she posts (even via mutual friends).

I did hear from someone else she did suddenly get rid of the guns in her home -- but I can only speculate why.

What....Why...What?

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16-06-2016, 06:29 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(16-06-2016 06:10 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  A pertinent story I heard on NPR an hour or so ago regarding gun terminology. Less than three-and-a-half minutes, it's worthwhile listening to those unfamiliar with a couple of key phrases:

http://www.npr.org/2016/06/16/482362941/...un-control

(16-06-2016 05:02 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  One of the most frightening suggestions I've heard (over and over and over again) is to consider the mental health history of a gun purchaser in the background check. First, it goes against everything HIIPA is all about. Second, a headshrink already has a duty to act if they feel like I am a threat to myself or others. But it don't involve telling The Man about it. It involves handing me off to a team prepared to give more attention to my treatment. (Dunno what happens if I refuse to comply. Dunno if the shaman has a duty to report it to The Man or not. Dunno if they're allowed to even then.)

And what about firearms I already own? Will The Man require me to surrender my Mossbergs now that I've been diagnosed with major depression and general anxiety disorder even though I've never exhibited any indication that I am threat to myself or others. (Told my witch doctor if I ever determine that it's time to off myself it will be by Nitrogen, not gunpowder. Scary thing was he didn't say anything but just nodded.)

I was of the opinion up until a few months ago that mental health checks would address a lot of our issues with firearms deaths, until Jormungandr and Rhythm over at AF pulled me by the short hairs. Looking through their links and some others, I was surprised to discover that less than 1% of all firearms murders are committed by people diagnosed with mental illnesses.

It struck me that I had been looking for the easiest "answer" to a goddamned hard problem.

That is an enlightening statistic. However, the word "diagnosed" is problematic.
Whether any of the mass killers were diagnosed or not, every last one of them was, in fact, mentally ill.

The health care system in the U.S. is seriously flawed in many ways.

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16-06-2016, 06:31 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(16-06-2016 06:13 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-06-2016 05:37 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  If a mental health care professional believes you are in imminent risk to harm yourself or others they can (and usually will) report you to the police.

But your comments about Hippa and reporting to prevent a weapon purchase, that's an interesting question -- if the individual keeps to their medication regimen and shows no signs of emotional distress (aside from what they're normally feeling), no history of hospitalization -- I would hope there'd be no reason to report people like that.

But I've also got a good friend, she lives in Indiana and her husband has a long history of schizophrenia, including numerous hospital stays, history going off his medications and becoming violent to her and her children.

She has his name off all the bank accounts, credit cards...she's got a durable power of attorney...Yet he can legally purchase a rifle.

He wouldn't get a license in Massachusetts. Consider

This is one of the reasons for federally-mandated minimum standards for licensing.

Her state, she says, he can buy a rifle without a background check from an individual in her state and no license is required for those.

They only restrict gun purchases for convicted violent felons and non-violent felons can still own a gun.

He's never been convicted of felony domestic abuse and has no criminal record.


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16-06-2016, 06:49 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(16-06-2016 06:31 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(16-06-2016 06:13 PM)Chas Wrote:  He wouldn't get a license in Massachusetts. Consider

This is one of the reasons for federally-mandated minimum standards for licensing.

Her state, she says, he can buy a rifle without a background check from an individual in her state and no license is required for those.

They only restrict gun purchases for convicted violent felons and non-violent felons can still own a gun.

He's never been convicted of felony domestic abuse and has no criminal record.

I'd call that a problem. Dodgy

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16-06-2016, 08:08 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(16-06-2016 06:18 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I really worry about gun owners in general -- I probably wouldn't worry about living next door to you or Chas.

Well, there would be the risk of full-contact Scrabble®. Consider

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16-06-2016, 08:16 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(16-06-2016 08:08 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-06-2016 06:18 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I really worry about gun owners in general -- I probably wouldn't worry about living next door to you or Chas.

Well, there would be the risk of full-contact Scrabble®. Consider

Yeah, I'd have to wipe the floor with you in person. Tongue


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17-06-2016, 12:21 AM (This post was last modified: 17-06-2016 12:27 AM by Deesse23.)
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(16-06-2016 03:28 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(16-06-2016 03:16 PM)morondog Wrote:  That's "minutiae" Tongue


Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! Bechased



Edited:

"Minutia" is plural for minutiae so technically I did use it properly. Tongue

Actually "a" is singular and "ae" is plural

singular: a, ae, ae, am, a
Plural: ae, arum, is, as, is

Nominativ, Genitiv, Dativ, Akkussativ, Ablativ Smartass

I knew those 6y of hardcore latin would pay off, some day! Banana_zorro

But, to be honest, those discussions about latin declinations are minutiae in the broader context. Hobo

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17-06-2016, 04:59 AM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(16-06-2016 03:28 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  
(16-06-2016 03:10 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Don't you get it? They don't want to discuss it. They're going to get hung up on minutia because that's their only way of deflecting questions. If they actually know anything about guns they certainly can comprehend questions -- they simply choose to pretend they don't understand.

It's the same way congress works or in this case doesn't. It effectively shuts down gun control talk before it can begin.

They're just wagging the dog. Drinking Beverage

That's simply not true moms. Biker and some others may not be interested in more effective gun control legislation, but Chas, myself and some other gun owners on this forum are. I just want to be on the same damn page when we are having the discussion. Wouldn't you be upset if you found out after the fact that the assault weapons ban you supported meant the family heirloom revolver your grandfather carried in World War I had to be turned in so it could be cut up for scrap because somebody considered it a semi-automatic weapon despite not meeting the definition for semi-automatic weapon?


Don't assume that I'm against good legislation. I simply don't agree with the way that the Brady Bunch goes about it -- incrementalism bent on banning guns.

.......................................

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17-06-2016, 05:07 AM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(16-06-2016 03:58 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(16-06-2016 03:28 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  That's simply not true moms. Biker and some others may not be interested in more effective gun control legislation, but Chas, myself and some other gun owners on this forum are. I just want to be on the same damn page when we are having the discussion. Wouldn't you be upset if you found out after the fact that the assault weapons ban you supported meant the family heirloom revolver your grandfather carried in World War I had to be turned in so it could be cut up for scrap because somebody considered it a semi-automatic weapon despite not meeting the definition for semi-automatic weapon?

I kind of get what you're saying but WW1 was a hundred years ago now. Such a gun is unlikely to be a "registered" weapon anyway. I know my late grandfather's WW2 Luger didn't require it (spoils of war and all that).

The government doesn't really care about weapons older than 50 years old...and already have regulations in place to protect antique gun collectors.

From the ATF webpage:

A regulation implementing Federal firearms laws, 27 CFR §478.11, defines Curio or Relic (C&R) firearms as those which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons.


UHhhhhhhh see that highlighted part???

WRONG!!!

That'd mean they don't care about a whole lot of machine guns including the BAR, the Thompson, and every other full automatic including the early M-16.......

Of course --- you CAN buy a M-16 that is C + R eligible --- last I checked -- for around $25,000............

The whole deal with C+R is to allow collectors to buy early guns - without going through an FFL --- but the buyer is subject to inspections (and the BATF does) -- and records must be kept of all sales.......

It's sort of a "poor man's FFL"...

.......................................

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