[split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
13-06-2016, 05:29 PM (This post was last modified: 13-06-2016 05:38 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(13-06-2016 05:17 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 05:11 PM)SYZ Wrote:  So... since 1996, there has not been one single mass shooting (4+ fatalities) in Australia—with a population of 24 million people.

People keep saying this and you are wrong.

September 9, 2014. Geoff Hunt shot and killed his wife and 3 kids before commiting suicide.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/hunt-family-mu...k2vo5.html

Not exactly 4+ but 2011 Hectorville siege, 6 shot, 3 killed and 3 injured including two police officers.

http://www.news.com.au/national/armed-si...6047448020

You are not seriously trying to quibble over the number 4 when it comes to casualties? Seriously? Some dude who offed himself and his family? Were there any other dudes who offed themselves and their family but they only had 1 kid? If that's the best you can come up with then you have made the Aussie's point.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes GirlyMan's post
13-06-2016, 05:30 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(13-06-2016 05:22 PM)hungry81 Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 01:42 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Can't find the word abortion in the Constitution. I just searched the entire thing with a search engine but no results.

However I can find the word "arms" followed by the words "shall not be infringed."
Funny thing about the constitution is that it can be amended. You should know, it's happened before.

But you keep clutching to your holy, ineffable document and your rambo/John mclain/seal team 6 fantasies. Meanwhile mass shootings will continue without you stopping them, even with your guns.

Technically sure that's true. But the process is very long.

While people are annoyed at the gun laws, I seriously doubt that will happen anytime soon.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-06-2016, 05:31 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(13-06-2016 05:29 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 05:17 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  People keep saying this and you are wrong.

September 9, 2014. Geoff Hunt shot and killed his wife and 3 kids before commiting suicide.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/hunt-family-mu...k2vo5.html

Not exactly 4+ but 2011 Hectorville siege, 6 shot, 3 killed and 3 injured including two police officers.

http://www.news.com.au/national/armed-si...6047448020

You are not seriously trying to argue over the meaning of 4+. Let's just change it to >4 instead. Okay. Now go find another number to quiblle over.

No, I'm correcting wrong information that was obviously copy pasted from the hundreds of other people spreading it around instead of researching into it.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-06-2016, 05:31 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(13-06-2016 05:17 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 05:11 PM)SYZ Wrote:  So... since 1996, there has not been one single mass shooting (4+ fatalities) in Australia—with a population of 24 million people.

People keep saying this and you are wrong.

September 9, 2014. Geoff Hunt shot and killed his wife and 3 kids before commiting suicide.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/hunt-family-mu...k2vo5.html

Not exactly 4+ but 2011 Hectorville siege, 6 shot, 3 killed and 3 injured including two police officers.

http://www.news.com.au/national/armed-si...6047448020
Wow hope you didn't have to dig to hard or long to find those, but yes you have convinced me now.

Those two shootings are demonstrably and immeasurably worse than the many shootings America goes through every month. Oh woe, my safety and security have been revealed for the terrible illusions that they were. Oh woe the ineffectiveness of gun control. Quickly everyone grab a gun. All for gun and gun for all.
Have a cookie and a gold star.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like hungry81's post
13-06-2016, 05:33 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(13-06-2016 05:31 PM)hungry81 Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 05:17 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  People keep saying this and you are wrong.

September 9, 2014. Geoff Hunt shot and killed his wife and 3 kids before commiting suicide.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/hunt-family-mu...k2vo5.html

Not exactly 4+ but 2011 Hectorville siege, 6 shot, 3 killed and 3 injured including two police officers.

http://www.news.com.au/national/armed-si...6047448020
Wow hope you didn't have to dig to hard or long to find those, but yes you have convinced me now.

Those two shootings are demonstrably and immeasurably worse than the many shootings America goes through every month. Oh woe, my safety and security have been revealed for the terrible illusions that they were. Oh woe the ineffectiveness of gun control. Quickly everyone grab a gun. All for gun and gun for all.
Have a cookie and a gold star.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

Sigh, I didn't say any of that did I? Stop trying to find an argument where there isn't one. I was only correcting wrong information.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes JDog554's post
13-06-2016, 05:39 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(13-06-2016 05:31 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 05:29 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  You are not seriously trying to argue over the meaning of 4+. Let's just change it to >4 instead. Okay. Now go find another number to quiblle over.

No, I'm correcting wrong information that was obviously copy pasted from the hundreds of other people spreading it around instead of researching into it.

I get it. I really do...the stated information was obviously incorrect.

But..........

Sarcastic side of me has to say....there were two?! You're right what a total failure.

This is one of those weird situations where it might be better to not point out the error.

And please understand I'm being glib....because you know how I feel about you as a person and a member of this forum.

In fact many people posting in this thread have my respect, even if I don't always agree. Smile


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-06-2016, 05:39 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(13-06-2016 05:31 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 05:29 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  You are not seriously trying to argue over the meaning of 4+. Let's just change it to >4 instead. Okay. Now go find another number to quiblle over.

No, I'm correcting wrong information that was obviously copy pasted from the hundreds of other people spreading it around instead of researching into it.

It is not at all clear to me that you are not guilty of that very same offense.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-06-2016, 05:47 PM (This post was last modified: 13-06-2016 06:17 PM by JDog554.)
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(13-06-2016 05:39 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 05:31 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  No, I'm correcting wrong information that was obviously copy pasted from the hundreds of other people spreading it around instead of researching into it.

I get it. I really do...the stated information was obviously incorrect.

But..........

Sarcastic side of me has to say....there were two?! You're right what a total failure.

This is one of those weird situations where it might be better to not point out the error.

And please understand I'm being glib....because you know how I feel about you as a person and a member of this forum.

In fact many people posting in this thread have my respect, even if I don't always agree. Smile

Never said it was a failure or anything, I can't deny it works nor will I but if your gonna make an argument like that you should know and show all the facts, even if it doesn't help your argument or you will show bias and it won't help the argument. I probably could have been a little nicer about it which SYZ I do apologize for.

(13-06-2016 05:39 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 05:31 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  No, I'm correcting wrong information that was obviously copy pasted from the hundreds of other people spreading it around instead of researching into it.

It is not at all clear to me that you are not guilty of that very same offense.

How so? I cited my sources which obviously show my rebuttal to be true.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes JDog554's post
13-06-2016, 05:48 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(13-06-2016 05:31 PM)hungry81 Wrote:  Wow hope you didn't have to dig to hard or long to find those, but yes you have convinced me now.

Those two shootings are demonstrably and immeasurably worse than the many shootings America goes through every month. Oh woe, my safety and security have been revealed for the terrible illusions that they were. Oh woe the ineffectiveness of gun control. Quickly everyone grab a gun. All for gun and gun for all.
Have a cookie and a gold star.

I like you already. Big Grin




#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-06-2016, 07:06 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(13-06-2016 03:25 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 01:53 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Take away the AR-15s and America would be no worse off then NZ or Aus.

AR 15s and high capacity magazines are allowed in NZ with E endorsements to your firearms license.
Thanks for the info, I didn't realise.
Seems to be an improvement on US though. Isn't it that anyone that can buy a gun, can also buy AR-15?
(13-06-2016 03:25 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  Two valid reasons for an E endorsements are competing in 3-gun and service rifle. Both are shooting sports that I participate in in the US. You don't have to use an AR15 for either of those sports but most people including those in NZ do.
Doesn't seem to me to be an important enough reason to let people have those guns.
(13-06-2016 03:25 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  Both sports require high capacity magazines.
Yes, and high capacity magazines, with an action that allows a shooter to keep shooting without losing aim seems to be a potential for a disaster.
Personally I think a single shot, bolt action is sufficient for sport and hunting.
I understand that people want more, but I feel it is a small consecion for public safety.
(13-06-2016 03:25 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  According to the FBI there were 44,077 murders involving firearms in the US from the start of 2009 through the end of 2013. 70.45% of the firearms related murders are know to have involved handguns. 3.7% of them are known to have involved rifles. Only some percentage of the later number would have been semi automatic military style rifles like the AR15. If you want to cut down on gun violence in the US you'd be better off concentrating on hand guns than worrying about AR15s because more people are killed here with baseball bats and hammers than are with AR15s.
This is an interesting argument and seeks to prioritise effort for gun control, but doesn't seem to address the issue on whether semi-automatic rifles ought to be legal or not. It's more of an attempt to avoid this decision by distracting us on other decisions.

In USA you guys have this idea that guns are for personal protection (NZ does not see guns as a means for personal protection). But obviously for personal protection, if you are allowing people to carry loaded weapons in public places, then it is impractical for people to wander around with rifles, not to mention intimidating for others.
So if personal protection is your thing, then handguns is what you need. Why on earth you would need something that can hold 15,20,30 bullets is beyond me. But anyways, this aspect makes the debate on handguns more difficult. It also means that the "bad" guys can also carry around the convenient hand gun. So you make it easier for them and then you are more likely to be in a "shoot-out". Who wins, nobody knows.
So if we look towards low hanging fruit. Machine guns seems to be an obvious one. Why does a person in a developed nation need a machine gun? You don't go hunting deer or ducks or even rabbits with machine guns. You don't need a machine gun to ward off a would be attacker. Sure, you can make a sport of firing machine guns, but then again you can make a sport of anything. So if you restrict machine guns, you also restrict assault rifles because they have an automatic function.
Next in line is the semi-automatic rifle. The AR-15 is a candidate because you can attach large magazines and you can do rapid fire without losing aim. It is much harder to police magazines than it is guns. So if you allow the AR-15 then you will have many instances of it used with large magazines regardless of whether large magazines are illegal. Do you really need an AR-15 for hunting? Sure, people can make arguments about accuracy, or about the convenience of having several bullets in the magazine. But what kind of hunter are you if you need 15+ bullets to take out a single deer? Surely a single shot, bolt action would be sufficient, takes a couple of seconds to reload if you need another bullet. The benefit is though, that it makes it hard for a nutter to do a mass shooting if they need to take a couple of seconds to reload after each shot. This is a concession. For public safety, give up on the convenience of an AR-15 for self use.
Why is it that many USA gun enthusiasts aren't willing to make this concession? Is it because their lives will be so ruined if they can't have an AR-15 or similar rifle? Is it because they fear the government or they fear that their home will be attacked by a mob? Is it because they are taking the idealistic view that it is their "right" to bear arms of their choosing, that it is un-american, un-constitutional to infringe upon that right?
I do get a feeling that for some, it is this rights and patriotic American thing above all else. That somehow they are exercising this "right" to prove how great America is and if this right is taken away then somehow America is no longer great. Many of these people would probably find Trump, Bush etc appealing.
Given all the gun propaganda, I also feel that some people consider it almost an obligation to carry a gun, to be a protector of the public. They are the unsung heroes, bless them. They probably own a multitude of guns, they probably are proud that they carry their guns with them every single day, for them gun issues are top of mind. Probably the main issue that they vote on.
Some however, might be itching to score a human as a trophy. Probably take pride that they have killed almost every species of animal known to mankind and want a human on that list to complete the set. But want to do it legally, so they are of the "go ahead, make my day" ilk. They would leave the garage door open with a purse if view of the street and wait in a bush for someone to step on their property. Maybe they want a trophy, maybe they are frustrated and grumpy with the wrong-doers in the world. But they don't want to miss the chance to kill legally. Like a paranoid gambler they would be fearful that the one time they aren't carrying is the time that a legal opportunity presents itself for them to shoot someone.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: