[split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
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13-06-2016, 07:32 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(13-06-2016 05:17 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 05:11 PM)SYZ Wrote:  So... since 1996, there has not been one single mass shooting (4+ fatalities) in Australia—with a population of 24 million people.

People keep saying this and you are wrong.

September 9, 2014. Geoff Hunt shot and killed his wife and 3 kids before commiting suicide.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/hunt-family-mu...k2vo5.html

Not exactly 4+ but 2011 Hectorville siege, 6 shot, 3 killed and 3 injured including two police officers.

http://www.news.com.au/national/armed-si...6047448020

Clutching at straws with these mate. My definition of 4+ deaths is the official definition in both the US and Australia. There's really no point in citing cases where four or less people have been killed, as we'd have a list as long as your arm.

At any rate, is that really the best you can do when comparing mass Aussie shooting figures with the US? Not even one single shooting near double figures in twenty years?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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13-06-2016, 07:56 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(13-06-2016 05:31 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 05:29 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  You are not seriously trying to argue over the meaning of 4+. Let's just change it to >4 instead. Okay. Now go find another number to quibble over.

No, I'm correcting wrong information that was obviously copy pasted from the hundreds of other people spreading it around instead of researching into it.

I'm afraid I didn't just "obviously" copy and paste that info, and I defy you to prove otherwise. Unlike you, I actually research stuff before I post it here. And it's more than apparent by your defensiveness with this issue that you're likely pro-gun, and are simply trying to deflect criticism of America's virtually non-existent gun laws and reprehensible mass shooting numbers.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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13-06-2016, 07:57 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(12-06-2016 08:10 PM)Einharjar Wrote:  I've never blamed the weapon. I've always blamed the culture.

We've got a poisonous culture, infectiously attributed to the Entitlement Idealism thanks to the Baby Boomer generation. Any Socialist idea is anti-capitalist, Any critique of religion is immoral and any thought of regulating the Gun market is some how Un-American.

As one who grew up with literally dozens of guns at his disposal, I had an innate respect for these weapons. I knew they were meant to kill, so I respected them and in a sense, feared them.
On the analogy about cars? Well that comparison isn't as bad as people think - you don't see people showing as much respect to a car's possibility as a weapon as they do a gun, right? it's all about the culture. My analytical mind easily put two and two together and realized that, yeah, even cars are dangerous as fuck, be careful with them. Be respectful. Be responsible.

But we have a self centered society who thinks it's OK to Drink and Drive despite how it's constantly educated that it's a bad idea. Note however, that we don't blame the car. We blame the choice to drink and drive. We don't even blame the alcohols.
Same goes for guns with me. The gun is an inanimate object. It doesn't do anything unless a shooter acts upon it. Another human. The same human that some how thought it was a good idea to get fucking smashed and then drive through a venue or some shit.

It's the person.

It's the culture.
I'm for some regulation, but this is a deep problem that goes beyond regulation. It's true that the NRA lobby's like a mofo to cock block bills that would other wise limit sales. Some of these shootings could've been stopped with a simple back ground check that would've prevented the purchase of a fire arm.
We're not stopping sales, just putting the same regulation that says that if you're 21, you shouldn't be going to Wal-Mart and buying beer. At 2 am.

This country is a state of hypocrisy. I swear.

In light of that, however; I'm one who's pretty convinced at the evidence of the Forbidden Fruit Effect. Simply denying or overly regulating access to something provokes the only truth the bible ever spat out - placing an object or knowledge in front of man and saying "don't mess with it" only incites curiousity. Because we're a culture that's afraid of truth and enlightenment, we have a culture that on one side, thinks it's either an all or nothing matter - either deny gay people rights or make guns easily purchasable by everyone (including toddlers) while the other side thinks "regulate everything and everything is offensive, OMG My feelings!" - a clear sign of stupidity on both fronts.

You can't regulate choice (Dems). You can't deny choice exists (Reps). The best you can do is educate a society, embrace enlightenment values and finally come to, admitting that racism only exists because we teach it, religion is a danger to mankind and needs to be challenged by teaching rational and critical thought, pure capitalism is probably not as good as you think and ideas are a dime a dozen, but some one actually acting on them is what we really should look for. We need to ask real questions. We need to actually act on our insights, not just tweet about them and think we're charitable.

The real questions that need to be asks will never be asked. This dude that shot up the pub was a straight up homophobe because of his belief system. A belief system that we constantly victimize in the media instead of taking it like adults and realizing that the Islamic world is fucked up.
No one wants to admit this. But I will.


*clears throat* Eh hem.
Hi, I'm Einharjar - I treat Islam with respect, and even a little bit of fear. I understand that like guns? It's meant to kill. However, unlike an object, this is perpetrated by individuals. I cannot condemn an object that has no sentience, but I can condemn a culture of people who's chosen belief embraces a culture of violence, hatred and discord. Thank you.

I've known many that are great people, but there's no excuse. Just read the fucking scriptures like you do the Bible and you'll see the problem. I cannot in my mind truly blame the gun for this, for if it wasn't for what this asshole believed - that gun would've never even left the holster, much less have been chambered.

I would say that I have a phobia of driving, but I think that my fears are totally founded and most people don't realize how close to death they are when behind the wheel. We're driving around at 60+ mph in metal boxes (ok, modern cars are pretty much plastic...) surrounded by other people doing the same thing in their metal boxes. Who knows what kinda nuts are operating these death machines? Unattentive people, drunks, people with mental disabilities, possible heart attacks waiting to happen, etc etc. Not to mention road rage, which I don't fucking understand at all. It's all I can do not to have a panic attack when my daughter is riding with me, because now I'm responsible for keeping her alive as well. Driving makes me sick. I've been driving to the same destination for the past 14 years (work), and rarely ever deviate from that course. People think I'm nuts, but I disagree. I wish I could just casually drive around willy-nilly, but I'm too self-aware of the danger of driving. It's a bummer. It's such a relief when I get to my destination, and I dread getting back in the car to leave. I've seen a shitload amount of wrecks and death on the way to work in my little 10 mile stretch than I've seen people killed by shootings (which is zero). So for people to say that comparing cars to guns is silly... well, I disagree.
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13-06-2016, 08:00 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(13-06-2016 07:57 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  So for people to say that comparing cars to guns is silly... well, I disagree.
Cars are for getting from A to B, society would collapse without them.
Guns are for killing animals and people, society would be fine without them.
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13-06-2016, 08:09 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(13-06-2016 08:00 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 07:57 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  So for people to say that comparing cars to guns is silly... well, I disagree.
Cars are for getting from A to B, society would collapse without them.
Guns are for killing animals and people, society would be fine without them.

I agree with the first part. As for the second part I disagree. I feel a bit safer having a couple of guns in my house. I have no idea how to fight and am not that physically imposing, but I am able to shoot a gun fairly accurately. So if some asshole busts in and wants to reenact a SAW movie on me and my family, at least I have a chance to stop it.
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13-06-2016, 08:21 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(13-06-2016 07:56 PM)SYZ Wrote:  [...]America's virtually non-existent gun laws[...]

lol
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13-06-2016, 08:23 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(13-06-2016 07:32 PM)SYZ Wrote:  Clutching at straws with these mate. My definition of 4+ deaths is the official definition in both the US and Australia. There's really no point in citing cases where four or less people have been killed, as we'd have a list as long as your arm.

At any rate, is that really the best you can do when comparing mass Aussie shooting figures with the US? Not even one single shooting near double figures in twenty years?

Australia scares the shit outta the NRA. Word is spreading. NRA's gonna hoist themselves on their own petards. ... fucking pussies.

#sigh
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13-06-2016, 08:25 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
Ugh. This crap again? Does this horse ever die?

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13-06-2016, 08:27 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(13-06-2016 08:09 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  I agree with the first part. As for the second part I disagree. I feel a bit safer having a couple of guns in my house. I have no idea how to fight and am not that physically imposing, but I am able to shoot a gun fairly accurately. So if some asshole busts in and wants to reenact a SAW movie on me and my family, at least I have a chance to stop it.
So how do societies continue to function where they don't have guns for home defence? e.g. NZ, Australia etc.
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13-06-2016, 08:28 PM
RE: [split] Gun Control (Orlando Mass Shooting)
(13-06-2016 08:21 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 07:56 PM)SYZ Wrote:  [...]America's virtually non-existent gun laws[...]

lol

Thanks for posting this, I'll have to read it in more detail.

But just skimming Alabama and learned that it's legal to open carry a gun.

As long as it's holstered, and you're not driving in a car -- where you need a conceal carry permit.

Quote:Open carry is generally permitted, but handgun must be securely contained in a holster (belt, ankle, or shoulder). However, open carry in a vehicle without a concealed carry license is prohibited. As of August 1, 2013, the law states that: "It shall be a rebuttable presumption that the mere carrying of a visible pistol, holstered or secured, in public place, in and of itself, is not disorderly conduct."

Fascinating shit right there.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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