[split] I&I asks about rep / Helping I&I
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02-11-2013, 08:17 PM
RE: [split] I&I asks about rep / Helping I&I
(02-11-2013 07:05 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  The sad thing is that I'd support him in half his arguments if it wasn't TTA social suicide by association. I've read enough Gnome to know that is far from the bastion of peace, freedom and Western ideology in the Middle East that the media makes it out to be.

Exactly. If I&I took a reasonable stance against Israel instead of a an extreme stance he'd have I'm sure a quarter of the board standing with him. As I've mentioned in previous threads where he accused the entire board of ignoring Israel's atrocities, I have marched in protest against Israel's actions and I'm sure will do so again. But can I stand with those who say Israel has no right to exist, should be destroyed, and her people killed or dispossessed? Can I stand with conspiracy theorists who believe zionists are behind every terrorist attack and incidence of violence in the world? No I cannot stand on that side of the ledger. If we're having a conversation about what actions should be taken to curb Israeli aggression then I'm all for reasonable proportional responses. If we are talking about the destruction of Israel based on conspiracy theory and innuendo then only the crazy will stand with you, I&I.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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03-11-2013, 08:31 AM
RE: [split] I&I asks about rep / Helping I&I
Can we just pause and bask in the warm glow of comfortable, stolid, predictability?

Because in response to my post noting how I and I insults his opponents for views he makes up and ascribes to them, I and I has insulted me for the views he has made up and ascribed to me.

He is a performance artist, and idiocy his true medium.

(02-11-2013 04:54 PM)I and I Wrote:  So if I never looked at international news I would be smart like you?

Ah. Well, you see, that's in no way what I said.

So you are, once again, responding to a statement that exists only in your mind.

I mean, I joke, but that's potentially a real problem. Maybe you should talk to a specialist if you can't tell the difference.

(02-11-2013 04:54 PM)I and I Wrote:  Israel has just bombed a syrian military base in a city that the rebels were on the verge of completely losing.

True. And?

(02-11-2013 04:54 PM)I and I Wrote:  In your retarded world Israel isn't helping the terrorists, they just coincidentally decided to bomb that target at coincidentally that moment.

Ah. Well, you see, the problem here is that once again, you are responding to a statement that nobody made.

I didn't say that. Hafnof didn't say that. Nobody said that. Except you.

This is about the extent of interaction you manage. Let us consider the above. It is an opinion you made up. You then insult people for having the views that you make up.

This is, indeed, utterly unconnected with external reality. And once again I am left gawping.

(02-11-2013 04:54 PM)I and I Wrote:  What kind of fucked up head believes the shit you guys believe?

Since you repeatedly demonstrate that you are fundamentally incapable of even beginning to understand other viewpoints...

I submit that nobody believes what your straw men do. But why stop now? I have a feeling you're building up to something good.

(02-11-2013 04:54 PM)I and I Wrote:  According to you guys every act, every event is nothing but unrelated independent coincidences.

Ah, well, you see, what's happened here is, this is a thing you invented so that it would be easier to rail against.

(02-11-2013 04:54 PM)I and I Wrote:  Just like according to you..... 1. The US was planning for a war with Iraq well before WMD propaganda. 2. Bush and company was wanting a pretext to invade. 3. Bush and company was purposely ignoring evidence that wouldn't give them this pretext and was purposely spreading ONLY the propaganda they needed to convince the people of the US to support a war with Iraq.

THANK YOU AND GOODNIGHT.

I have noted before that this is the single fevered accusation I and I can make against me. It's still not coherent, and it's still not accurate, but it is as predictable as the tides.

Call it cjlr's corollary to Godwin's Law, perhaps. Being an observational principle on the inevitability of argumentative devolution:
"As a discussion between cjlr and I and I proceeds, the probability of I and I accusing cjlr of being wrong due to not sharing exactly the same views as to the events and motives leading up to the 2003 American invasion of Iraq approaches 1."

Citation needed on that, though, brother. I mean, if those are purportedly my views, I think I'd know.

(02-11-2013 04:54 PM)I and I Wrote:  According to your idiotic brain, these three facts are unrelated, and not connected in any way, they are simply coincidences.

Hmm. Yes. Well, you see, they're not facts. So there's that.

You should know all about facts by now, shouldn't you?

(02-11-2013 04:54 PM)I and I Wrote:  According my brain this points to a long planned war, and a concerted effort to lie, deceive and manipulate the public into a pretext for an invasion.

Hot damn, I'd forgotten your mind-reading skills. And across time no less!

The world needs to know about your gift, I and I.

(02-11-2013 04:54 PM)I and I Wrote:  Serious question: Do you believe any event in history is connected to any previous event?

I like the way you said 'serious question', in order to pretend that you had a shred of either honesty or seriousness.

But let us actually consider this ridiculous farce of a leading question. I grant that it may well be the best you can come up with, but that doesn't make it less idiotic.

Who would say 'no'? I know you are disconnected from reality, but even you admit of the existence of cause and effect. Do you suppose there are people who don't? Do you suppose your present interlocutors to be counted amongst them? Do you genuinely believe your audience faces the world under a weight of delusion greater by far than even yours?

Didn't think so.

But please, if you're going somewhere with this, go there faster.

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03-11-2013, 08:42 AM
RE: [split] I&I asks about rep / Helping I&I
(03-11-2013 08:31 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Can we just pause and bask in the warm glow of comfortable, stolid, predictability?

Because in response to my post noting how I and I insults his opponents for views he makes up and ascribes to them, I and I has insulted me for the views he has made up and ascribed to me.

He is a performance artist, and idiocy his true medium.

(02-11-2013 04:54 PM)I and I Wrote:  So if I never looked at international news I would be smart like you?

Ah. Well, you see, that's in no way what I said.

So you are, once again, responding to a statement that exists only in your mind.

I mean, I joke, but that's potentially a real problem. Maybe you should talk to a specialist if you can't tell the difference.

(02-11-2013 04:54 PM)I and I Wrote:  Israel has just bombed a syrian military base in a city that the rebels were on the verge of completely losing.

True. And?

(02-11-2013 04:54 PM)I and I Wrote:  In your retarded world Israel isn't helping the terrorists, they just coincidentally decided to bomb that target at coincidentally that moment.

Ah. Well, you see, the problem here is that once again, you are responding to a statement that nobody made.

I didn't say that. Hafnof didn't say that. Nobody said that. Except you.

This is about the extent of interaction you manage. Let us consider the above. It is an opinion you made up. You then insult people for having the views that you make up.

This is, indeed, utterly unconnected with external reality. And once again I am left gawping.

(02-11-2013 04:54 PM)I and I Wrote:  What kind of fucked up head believes the shit you guys believe?

Since you repeatedly demonstrate that you are fundamentally incapable of even beginning to understand other viewpoints...

I submit that nobody believes what your straw men do. But why stop now? I have a feeling you're building up to something good.

(02-11-2013 04:54 PM)I and I Wrote:  According to you guys every act, every event is nothing but unrelated independent coincidences.

Ah, well, you see, what's happened here is, this is a thing you invented so that it would be easier to rail against.

(02-11-2013 04:54 PM)I and I Wrote:  Just like according to you..... 1. The US was planning for a war with Iraq well before WMD propaganda. 2. Bush and company was wanting a pretext to invade. 3. Bush and company was purposely ignoring evidence that wouldn't give them this pretext and was purposely spreading ONLY the propaganda they needed to convince the people of the US to support a war with Iraq.

THANK YOU AND GOODNIGHT.

I have noted before that this is the single fevered accusation I and I can make against me. It's still not coherent, and it's still not accurate, but it is as predictable as the tides.

Call it cjlr's corollary to Godwin's Law, perhaps. Being an observational principle on the inevitability of argumentative devolution:
"As a discussion between cjlr and I and I proceeds, the probability of I and I accusing cjlr of being wrong due to not sharing exactly the same views as to the events and motives leading up to the 2003 American invasion of Iraq approaches 1."

Citation needed on that, though, brother. I mean, if those are purportedly my views, I think I'd know.

(02-11-2013 04:54 PM)I and I Wrote:  According to your idiotic brain, these three facts are unrelated, and not connected in any way, they are simply coincidences.

Hmm. Yes. Well, you see, they're not facts. So there's that.

You should know all about facts by now, shouldn't you?

(02-11-2013 04:54 PM)I and I Wrote:  According my brain this points to a long planned war, and a concerted effort to lie, deceive and manipulate the public into a pretext for an invasion.

Hot damn, I'd forgotten your mind-reading skills. And across time no less!

The world needs to know about your gift, I and I.

(02-11-2013 04:54 PM)I and I Wrote:  Serious question: Do you believe any event in history is connected to any previous event?

I like the way you said 'serious question', in order to pretend that you had a shred of either honesty or seriousness.

But let us actually consider this ridiculous farce of a leading question. I grant that it may well be the best you can come up with, but that doesn't make it less idiotic.

Who would say 'no'? I know you are disconnected from reality, but even you admit of the existence of cause and effect. Do you suppose there are people who don't? Do you suppose your present interlocutors to be counted amongst them? Do you genuinely believe your audience faces the world under a weight of delusion greater by far than even yours?

Didn't think so.

But please, if you're going somewhere with this, go there faster.

Anyone that believes that bush didn't lie about the pretext (WMD) to go war with Iraq is a dumb mother fucker. Billions of people around the world know this except for the few rightwing hold outs in the U.S. CJLR, you are a dumb mother fucker that believes the dumb fucking shit that bush wasn't lying about the pretext for the Iraq war.
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03-11-2013, 08:49 AM
RE: [split] I&I asks about rep / Helping I&I
(02-11-2013 08:17 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  
(02-11-2013 07:05 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  The sad thing is that I'd support him in half his arguments if it wasn't TTA social suicide by association. I've read enough Gnome to know that is far from the bastion of peace, freedom and Western ideology in the Middle East that the media makes it out to be.

Exactly. If I&I took a reasonable stance against Israel instead of a an extreme stance he'd have I'm sure a quarter of the board standing with him. As I've mentioned in previous threads where he accused the entire board of ignoring Israel's atrocities, I have marched in protest against Israel's actions and I'm sure will do so again. But can I stand with those who say Israel has no right to exist, should be destroyed, and her people killed or dispossessed? Can I stand with conspiracy theorists who believe zionists are behind every terrorist attack and incidence of violence in the world? No I cannot stand on that side of the ledger. If we're having a conversation about what actions should be taken to curb Israeli aggression then I'm all for reasonable proportional responses. If we are talking about the destruction of Israel based on conspiracy theory and innuendo then only the crazy will stand with you, I&I.

Lets see where you lied...

Nobody stated that Israelis were responsible everything. You have to lie to make me look bad.

What is my extreme stance against Israel? The world condemns Israel for the same shit I talk about. Are you implying that the world is wrong about Israel too? I hate oppressive religious governments (ISRAEL-CHECK), I hate racist governments (ISRAEL-CHECK) I hate countries that have nuclear weapons and verbally threaten to attack other nations (ISRAEL-CHECK) I hate countries that repeatedly attack and invade surrounding nations (ISRAEL-CHECK) I hate nations that torture people (ISRAEL CHECK) I hate nations that commit war crimes very often (ISRAEL-CHECK).


Now please share with the class, why any of those is so extreme to hate.
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03-11-2013, 08:59 AM
RE: [split] I&I asks about rep / Helping I&I
What do you propose as the proportional response, I&I?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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03-11-2013, 10:46 AM
RE: [split] I&I asks about rep / Helping I&I
(03-11-2013 08:42 AM)I and I Wrote:  Anyone that believes that bush didn't lie about the pretext (WMD) to go war with Iraq is a dumb mother fucker. Billions of people around the world know this except for the few rightwing hold outs in the U.S. CJLR, you are a dumb mother fucker that believes the dumb fucking shit that bush wasn't lying about the pretext for the Iraq war.

So, in response to the above analysis of your behaviour, you repeat the same baseless accusation that I called you out on. The only response you ever give me. Whether or not it bears the slightest relevance to the situation at hand or not (protip: it doesn't). Okay then.

They say a man with only a hammer sees everything as a nail. I begin to think of you as a monkey with shit. Because your response to any stimuli whatsoever appears to be the same...

I do note that you have finally figured out how to spell my name. So there's that!

But oh, sweet zombie Jesus, do I have to go over this again?

Institutional bias and blindness coupled with human fallibility and preconceptions more than account for the observed events. I base my conclusions on such universal and elementary principles as: simple explanations are preferable to complex explanations, and when pertaining to human actions error is preferable to malice. "People believe what they want to believe", one might even say, not that I can think of any sense in which that might pertain to you at all...

Indeed, you, yourself, have acknowledged that different interpretations are in principle possible. You simply declare that your personal accounting is universally and unquestionably true, asserted by fiat and substantiated by never you mind. Naturally, anyone who then disagrees is consequently a 'dumb fucking shit'.

To claim complete knowledge of motivation based on shallow post-hoc analysis is to read minds. In this case it is to read minds over ten years ago. This, apparently, you can do.
(notwithstanding that your purported motive of 'lie to get to Iraq' is itself wildly insufficient, providing as it does not motive whatsoever for the Iraq part)

Oddly, you only demonstrate this ability when it comes to high officials in the Bush administration, and only for a narrow stretch of 2002-2003. Your ability to read minds does not extend to anyone on this forum you've ever conversed with, as you well demonstrate by so thoroughly and comprehensively mischaracterising and misrepresenting everyone else during every encounter.


PS: remember a million years ago when I summarized your views in a mock dialogue? And you said it was inaccurate? And then, when pressed, never did articulate how it was so? Any time you'd like to answer that, please, go right ahead.

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03-11-2013, 05:12 PM
[split] I&I asks about rep / Helping I&I
(03-11-2013 10:46 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(03-11-2013 08:42 AM)I and I Wrote:  Anyone that believes that bush didn't lie about the pretext (WMD) to go war with Iraq is a dumb mother fucker. Billions of people around the world know this except for the few rightwing hold outs in the U.S. CJLR, you are a dumb mother fucker that believes the dumb fucking shit that bush wasn't lying about the pretext for the Iraq war.

So, in response to the above analysis of your behaviour, you repeat the same baseless accusation that I called you out on. The only response you ever give me. Whether or not it bears the slightest relevance to the situation at hand or not (protip: it doesn't). Okay then.

They say a man with only a hammer sees everything as a nail. I begin to think of you as a monkey with shit. Because your response to any stimuli whatsoever appears to be the same...

I do note that you have finally figured out how to spell my name. So there's that!

But oh, sweet zombie Jesus, do I have to go over this again?

Institutional bias and blindness coupled with human fallibility and preconceptions more than account for the observed events. I base my conclusions on such universal and elementary principles as: simple explanations are preferable to complex explanations, and when pertaining to human actions error is preferable to malice. "People believe what they want to believe", one might even say, not that I can think of any sense in which that might pertain to you at all...

Indeed, you, yourself, have acknowledged that different interpretations are in principle possible. You simply declare that your personal accounting is universally and unquestionably true, asserted by fiat and substantiated by never you mind. Naturally, anyone who then disagrees is consequently a 'dumb fucking shit'.

To claim complete knowledge of motivation based on shallow post-hoc analysis is to read minds. In this case it is to read minds over ten years ago. This, apparently, you can do.
(notwithstanding that your purported motive of 'lie to get to Iraq' is itself wildly insufficient, providing as it does not motive whatsoever for the Iraq part)

Oddly, you only demonstrate this ability when it comes to high officials in the Bush administration, and only for a narrow stretch of 2002-2003. Your ability to read minds does not extend to anyone on this forum you've ever conversed with, as you well demonstrate by so thoroughly and comprehensively mischaracterising and misrepresenting everyone else during every encounter.


PS: remember a million years ago when I summarized your views in a mock dialogue? And you said it was inaccurate? And then, when pressed, never did articulate how it was so? Any time you'd like to answer that, please, go right ahead.

And I think of you as a tea party flag waving monkey who jacks off to George Bush, who ALWAYS defends bush policy on the invasion of Iraq, and seems to hate anyone that talks bad about "amurca".
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03-11-2013, 05:15 PM
RE: [split] I&I asks about rep / Helping I&I
Considering this post has morphed so much, I will bring out the popcorn.

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03-11-2013, 05:20 PM
[split] I&I asks about rep / Helping I&I
(03-11-2013 08:59 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  What do you propose as the proportional response, I&I?

The appropriate response to Israel? That is beginning now, the EU has started its first round of sanctions against Israel and many countries are starting to reduce business with them. Stephen hawking and other popular figures including celebrities are starting boycott speaking or performing in Israel. This is the same thing that happened in South Africa. Eventually their society starts to really suck to live in and their economy goes to shit.

Let's see if you can guess something. Last weeks UN general assembly cited to condemn the U.S. Embargo on Cuba. 188 (something like that) countries voted. All of the countries voted to condemn the embargo, the world voted to condemn the embargo.....except for 2. Which 2 countries voted to not condemn the embargo? Take a guess.
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03-11-2013, 07:00 PM
RE: [split] I&I asks about rep / Helping I&I
(03-11-2013 05:12 PM)I and I Wrote:  And I think of you as a tea party flag waving monkey who jacks off to George Bush, who ALWAYS defends bush policy on the invasion of Iraq, and seems to hate anyone that talks bad about "amurca".

Citation needed, ol' buddy.

Citation. Motherfucking. Needed.

(03-11-2013 05:12 PM)I and I Wrote:  tea party flag waving monkey

Member of a socialist party, thanks. But don't let pesky reality interfere with self-righteous delusion.

(03-11-2013 05:12 PM)I and I Wrote:  who jacks off to George Bush

Assad's harem ain't big enough for the both of us. But don't let pesky reality interfere with self-righteous delusion.

(03-11-2013 05:12 PM)I and I Wrote:  who ALWAYS defends bush policy on the invasion of Iraq

Protested against it at the time, and have called it a shambling debacle multiple times on this very forum, but don't let pesky reality interfere with self-righteous delusion.

(03-11-2013 05:12 PM)I and I Wrote:  seems to hate anyone that talks bad about "amurca".

Not even American, nor have I ever come close to expressing such a view. Astute viewers might recall that I have been critical of American policy and segments of the American populace multiple times on this very forum. But don't let pesky reality interfere with self-righteous delusion.

...

See, my ol' chum, this is the very problem I raised earlier.

You made up things that I believe. You convinced yourself that I believe them. No action or statement on my part bears them any relation, nor does any act or word of mine dissuade you from delusion.

Keep on flinging the same ol' shit, monkeybrain. It gets more adorable every time. I can't even hold it against you, since it's become more than apparent that you cannot help it.
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PS: I'm still waiting on which parts of my earlier mock dialogue were not an accurate representation of your views. You claimed as much, but have utterly failed to substantiate the claim (ie BUSINESS AS USUAL).

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