[split] I&I + earmuffs censorship pissing contest
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
10-04-2013, 06:56 PM
RE: Ask a (GASP) CHINESE COMMUNIST ! ! !
(10-04-2013 06:45 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(09-04-2013 10:45 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  This just shows a greater importance on the need to speak up, have an opinion, be an individual etc.. on the matter, if the government is not only censoring the media but also repressing those who dare question them.

Standing by and actively allowing it to happen, as well as actively participating!, is giving a clear image that it is okay for government to own the media and for the government to censor the media and repress those that question things.
A quick look at history (and you need not go too far back) will show you the clear danger of this.

How can you sit back and say "ohh poor him, he's being repressed" when he is actively agreeing with being repressed and doing absolutely nothing about it.
He obviously enjoys being a sheep, following those in rank above him and just doing what he is told all through his insignificant life.

Hey earmuffs--I'm with you on the censorship stuff, but we can't really know why he's not answering. He may be worse than a sheep--he very well could agree with censorship as a means of advancing communism and just understands how much ground he would lose by admitting it. Or, he might disagree with censorship and doesn't want to answer out of fear. If it's the first scenario, then he is everything you accuse him of, and worse. If it is the second, you need to cut him some slack. Problem is, we don't really know which one the poster is.

What I've learned form reading up on the Tiananmen issue is that there actually were some voices in leadership that supported the protestors rights. Those leaders obviously lost and were marginalized, setting back the rights of Chinese for a generation. Even in Soviet Russia there were reformists, and one day Chinese reformists will change their country. It's too much to ask some junior member of the CCP to publicly be a reformist on a foreign blog.

Go back and re-read the OP.
You tell me if it's the prior or the later. I would place money on it being the prior.
I honestly believe he has never thought a negative thought, or repressed negative thoughts, of the party his entire life, which is why he is unable to formulate an opinion on the matter. It's never been raised at his meetings, it's never talked about in the media or anywhere etc.. so he simply conforms and acts like nothing is occurring.

I get that it's a shitty situation, I could even get doing nothing, but what I don't understand and baffles me is how he can actively participate and be proud that it's happening.

[Image: 3cdac7eec8f6b059070d9df56f50a7ae.jpg]
Now with 40% more awesome.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-04-2013, 11:13 PM
Ask a (GASP) CHINESE COMMUNIST ! ! !
(10-04-2013 06:25 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(10-04-2013 01:36 PM)I and I Wrote:  Hey earmuffs,

remember that dumb poster named shiranl? She lived in Israel and like all Israeli citizens, isn't allowed to discuss Israeli nuclear weapons, they can actually be put in jail for discussing them. Ever since I started posting about Israeli nuclear weapons, she stopped posting on this forum. What do you think about that kind of censorship? Or is that ok because it's a capitalist nation doing the censoring?

You assume because I have one opinion of a country that I have a different one of another.
As always I&I, you are wrong.

Quote:Erm, okay? Congratulations. I am quite sure that our Chinese friend can formulate his own opinions as well, since I did ask for his own personal opinion on America and he delivered.

Ask his opinion on Chinese censorship and government owned media.
Drinking Beverage

Quote:Honestly, your opinion is malformed. You cannot possibly dictate what a person actually believes, nor can you realistically believe a person has considered all other possibly positions on any ideology. I have never once considered becoming a pantheist, so does that make me a fake atheist as well? You were born and conditioned to be proud of your nation, does that mean you are a fake New Zealander because you have not considered being proud of another country?

Just to clarify, my last post was a poor representation of my thought process behind my post when I said he's a fake atheist; he is a fake atheist because his religion is his government.
He might not believe in a god, but he has replaced god for Mao Zedong. He has replaced church with party meetings. He thinks what the party wants him to think (sure as fuck doesn't think on his own). Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he got down on two knees and prayed to the mighty Mao for guidance in his life.

Quote:Disappointing that you are so adamantly opposed to appreciating a different perspective.

What perspective? He's yet to give an opinion on the matter. All he's done is spouted off some news shit which didn't come close to answering the question and giving us his opinion on the matter.

Quote:Working mostly, though I did find time to look at the art thread and see that you haven't.

Yes, well that tone isn't helping your case.

I have posted numerous times commenting on corporate media and how they basically repeat government fed lines when it comes to foreign policy and I get the same song and dance.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-04-2013, 12:06 AM
RE: Ask a (GASP) CHINESE COMMUNIST ! ! !
(10-04-2013 07:20 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(10-04-2013 06:56 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Go back and re-read the OP.
You tell me if it's the prior or the later. I would place money on it being the prior.
I honestly believe he has never thought a negative thought, or repressed negative thoughts, of the party his entire life, which is why he is unable to formulate an opinion on the matter. It's never been raised at his meetings, it's never talked about in the media or anywhere etc.. so he simply conforms and acts like nothing is occurring.

I get that it's a shitty situation, I could even get doing nothing, but what I don't understand and baffles me is how he can actively participate and be proud that it's happening.

I certainly have suspicions. However, Gorbachev could recite communist dogma as well as any Soviet leader. But he also marshaled reforms --'glastnost' and 'perestroika'.

I think the example of Soviet collapse after granting freedoms is a big barrier for reformers in China. They clearly fear that opening up free speech could lead to a collapse in their government in a similar way. China seems to be doing some of the perestroika stuff, although very cautiously and with an eye on keeping tight controls on everything unlike what the Soviets did.

Oh for sure, the Chinese government is incredible smart to say the least.
I think it is inevitable that they open up on the whole human rights issues and it's only a matter of time before Chinese people share the same freedoms as their western counter-parts.
Part of the good side of globalization I suppose.

And yea I think you're right that the Communist party see that as a threat. After all, it would mean more or less the end of the party (if they are unwilling to adapt, which I think they will, they have brains). Thus, censorship etc..

That doesn't make it right however.

Quote:(2) My opinion on this issue?
[1] I said I am proud of those who sacrifice themselves for noble causes.

That isn't an opinion on the issue at all.
I can say I respect Hitler for trying to bring Germany back to its former glory at the start of WW2, that doesn't mean I have this opinion on the issue or that opinion.
That was a very PC answer.

Quote:Yet their poor management of their encampment and in-fights for power over the right to represent the many in front of western media subtracted some points and made their claims not that convincing.

It was convincing enough that the government thought it needed to suppress them... with tanks...

The issue here is not how much of a convincing argument they are making, the issue is the government used military force to repress them because the government didn't like what was happening.

Quote:The way the Chinese government handled the issue was quite crude.

Tanks.
We're not talking about the shitty little ones that my government has, we're talking type 59 main battle tanks... The big fuckers.

Quote:Just learn from the U.S.' dealing with the Occupy Wall Street Movement.

"Just learn", The Occupy movement was 20+ years AFTER this...
And it wasn't a repression of their ability to protest. They could protest till their hearts content. The camps were broken up because they were on public parks and had become little towns for the homeless and the ability for the public to enjoy those parks was in question. But don't think the ability to protest was being 'repressed'.
Tiananmen Square was plain and simply a government repressing protestors.

VERY different.

Quote:(3) Does the Chinese government censor the information? There answer can be many levels.

It is a yes or no answer.
The answer is yes btw.

Quote:(4) My stance on the government news media/internet censorship?
Is this a subjective question or an objective choice with a standard answer given by the person who asked this question? If it is a choice thing, I give up.

It's very simple.
What is YOUR opinion on a government (any government) owning the media (control over what is displayed to its citizens) and censoring information that IT deems worth censoring?
No tricks, no gimmicks, very simple question.

Quote:[2] I used a proxy to visit Youtube.

Bang, censorship.
Likely because it's very easy for people to record something on their phone or small camcorder and post it to youtube. ie: If I'm at a protest and the government start firing on the crowd, I could film that and put it on youtube while it's happening.
And the Chinese government has no control over youtube...
You could easily start anti-communist party vlogs (video blogs) and shit like that too, get people questioning/thinking about the government etc..

Quote:[3] The Great Fire Wall does exist, mainly to filter out certain disturbing information for the general public.

Excuse me while I literally rofl for a while. (I actually robl'ed (rolling on the bed laughing) but w/e))
Ok back.
Is this seriously what they tell you!!!!! like, seriously!!
"The internet is a violent place, we are protecting you"
That is hilarious!

Please, what are these "disturbing things for the general public"??
What is so disturbing that nobody in China should see it and the government needs to have complete control in order to prevent the Chinese public from seeing it!?
Seriously, what are these "disturbing things" that so liter all corners of the interwebs?

Quote:[5] I am not paid to be the spokesman of the government. I provided one answer to the best of my ability. I have no duty to satisfy the question raiser, do I?

That wasn't to the best of your ability because it wasn't an answer.
No you do not, but I have no duty to stop pestering you about answering it either.

Quote:6] Why Youtube is filtered? Ask the Chinese government ! As long as I can use a proxy to get across, I don't care !

Ahh see, now we're getting closer to what could be an actual opinion.
You don't care because you can get around it, which implies that you do disagree with censorship!?
What if you were unable to get on youtube? what about the sites you can't access now? Would you be more openly opposed to censorship then!?

Quote:(7) Since not that much harm, why not stand up earlier and clarify things?
Much of the above was said in my posts. People are free to feel unsatisfied.

Yes, the same avoidance of the question was in those posts just like it's in this one.
Feel free to actually answer the question.

Quote:I have posted numerous times commenting on corporate media and how they basically repeat government fed lines when it comes to foreign policy and I get the same song and dance.

Answer my question in the other thread.

[Image: 3cdac7eec8f6b059070d9df56f50a7ae.jpg]
Now with 40% more awesome.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes earmuffs's post
11-04-2013, 03:22 AM
RE: Ask a (GASP) CHINESE COMMUNIST ! ! !
Hello, earmuffs. Smile

Good bye earmuffs. Smile

Want something? Then do something.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-04-2013, 12:17 PM
RE: Ask a (GASP) CHINESE COMMUNIST ! ! !
(11-04-2013 04:55 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(11-04-2013 03:19 AM)HU.Junyuan Wrote:  I really don't feel comfortable to discuss the free speech and censorship thing for the moment because we don't know each other well and the differences between us is indeed a grand barrier for such in-depth discussions. Let's reserve our differences and seek common grounds.

The CPC membership thing is really like the club membership thing. Because the CPC keeps recruiting elites in universities, corporations and other organizations, and urging her members to remain among the best, it's kinda cool if someone is a formal member, just like the club thing instead of a career.

Hu, Censorship is alive and well in capitalist nations, in todays afghanistan and Iraq are prime examples of capitalist censorship going on in those countries.

The U.S. is different because the U.S. government doesn't have to censor most of the time, because in the U.S. it is the private corporations that do the censoring. Here is one example among many: A man named Phil Donahue in the U.S. had a televeision show on a major corporate news network, his show was the most popular in it's time slot. Before the U.S. invasion of Iraq Phil Donahue was speaking out against the war, this man was fired from his television show because he was going against government views.

You're an idiot and I'm breaking my own long-standing rule of just simply ignoring you...

Phil Donahue didn't get fired. His contract wasn't renewed because of his failing ratings and Maury and Jerry Springer type of antics...His final show was in 1996...I don't get where you're going with Iraq war shit....What Iraq war???

He moved to MSNBC (which was a totally different show) for a short while and his show didn't last there either. He retired shortly after.

The things people spout to bolster a non-issue.

Shoo fly


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Momsurroundedbyboys's post
11-04-2013, 02:47 PM
RE: Ask a (GASP) CHINESE COMMUNIST ! ! !
(11-04-2013 12:17 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(11-04-2013 04:55 AM)I and I Wrote:  Hu, Censorship is alive and well in capitalist nations, in todays afghanistan and Iraq are prime examples of capitalist censorship going on in those countries.

The U.S. is different because the U.S. government doesn't have to censor most of the time, because in the U.S. it is the private corporations that do the censoring. Here is one example among many: A man named Phil Donahue in the U.S. had a televeision show on a major corporate news network, his show was the most popular in it's time slot. Before the U.S. invasion of Iraq Phil Donahue was speaking out against the war, this man was fired from his television show because he was going against government views.

You're an idiot and I'm breaking my own long-standing rule of just simply ignoring you...

Phil Donahue didn't get fired. His contract wasn't renewed because of his failing ratings and Maury and Jerry Springer type of antics...His final show was in 1996...I don't get where you're going with Iraq war shit....What Iraq war???

He moved to MSNBC (which was a totally different show) for a short while and his show didn't last there either. He retired shortly after.

The things people spout to bolster a non-issue.

Shoo fly

Did you really think I was referring to his show before he went to msnbc? Drinking Beverage

His show on MSNBC had the highest ratings on the network, then he starts speaking out against the Iraq war before it starts as most media is simply repeating government fed lines about WMD, he then gets fired from MSNBC.

You seem to not even know that he was fired from MSNBC for speaking out against the Iraq war?

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/3/21/ph...003_firing
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-04-2013, 08:22 PM
RE: Ask a (GASP) CHINESE COMMUNIST ! ! !
(11-04-2013 03:19 AM)HU.Junyuan Wrote:  
(10-04-2013 08:48 PM)BryanS Wrote:  Thanx for response.

I wouldn't compare Tiananmen with Occupy Wall Street. And characterizing the response by China's government as 'crude' is an understatement. A better comparison might be the Selma voting rights marches (kicked off on 'Bloody Sunday') during the US civil rights movement. (ref. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selma_to_Mo...ry_marches ). I say it is a better comparison because both produced very violent reactions by government, and both were fights for civil rights. Of course everything in China is bigger Smile And the Tiananmen protests resulted in thousands of injured citizens and hundreds of deaths.

You can use proxies to peak around the 'Great Firewall'. What about others who are not as knowledgeable or resourceful as you?

Again, I appreciate the thought you put into your most recent posting. I and others may seem focused on these 'heavy' topics, but these really are the issues that are the source of disagreements between China and Western governments, even if as ordinary citizens we think and worry about our daily lives more than what our governments do.

Is being a member of the communist party a career decision? What motivated you to join?

I really don't feel comfortable to discuss the free speech and censorship thing for the moment because we don't know each other well and the differences between us is indeed a grand barrier for such in-depth discussions. Let's reserve our differences and seek common grounds.

The CPC membership thing is really like the club membership thing. Because the CPC keeps recruiting elites in universities, corporations and other organizations, and urging her members to remain among the best, it's kinda cool if someone is a formal member, just like the club thing instead of a career.

"I don't know you well enough" oh please, give me a break.
You will never give your opinion because you're petrified you will be kicked out of the cool-boys club if you speak an ill word of it.
Just admit it.

[Image: 3cdac7eec8f6b059070d9df56f50a7ae.jpg]
Now with 40% more awesome.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes earmuffs's post
11-04-2013, 09:44 PM
RE: Ask a (GASP) CHINESE COMMUNIST ! ! !
(11-04-2013 08:22 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  "I don't know you well enough" oh please, give me a break.
You will never give your opinion because you're petrified you will be kicked out of the cool-boys club if you speak an ill word of it.
Just admit it.

Hello Muffintop, Smile

What are you expecting from this?

Goodbye Muffinears Smile

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like DeepThought's post
12-04-2013, 12:05 AM
RE: Ask a (GASP) CHINESE COMMUNIST ! ! !
(11-04-2013 09:44 PM)DeepThought Wrote:  
(11-04-2013 08:22 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  "I don't know you well enough" oh please, give me a break.
You will never give your opinion because you're petrified you will be kicked out of the cool-boys club if you speak an ill word of it.
Just admit it.

Hello Muffintop, Smile

What are you expecting from this?

Goodbye Muffinears Smile

Lol.

I'm expecting a straight answer to a very simple question.

[Image: 3cdac7eec8f6b059070d9df56f50a7ae.jpg]
Now with 40% more awesome.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes earmuffs's post
12-04-2013, 12:43 AM (This post was last modified: 12-04-2013 12:52 AM by DeepThought.)
RE: Ask a (GASP) CHINESE COMMUNIST ! ! !
(12-04-2013 12:05 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Lol.

I'm expecting a straight answer to a very simple question.

Well I don't think you will get one and your attempts to get one are borderline hostile along with your motive behind it. There is no chance you will get an answer with that method. You'll only create hostility. It's aggravating for me to watch and I'd rather change the subject.

If Junyuan wants to talk about he will.

What are you trying to accomplish here? Seriously think it over!

Do you want him to renounce his evil commie ways and beg your forgiveness for blaspheming against the god of capitalism and globalisation?

Muffinears: "Yes... that would be a start..."

lol

Muffintop: "Then, he can build a statue in my honor, because of my capitalistic greatness! I am awesome!"

[Image: Statue_at_Candi_Sukuh.jpg]

EDIT: ok... maybe my straw-muffin-man argument went a bit far... But I hope my general point comes across.

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes DeepThought's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: